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Discussion Starter #1
My 21 year-old nephew, who is more liberal than John Kerry, was involved in a robbery-shooting last night. Several of his friends were going out on the town about 11PM in Savannah, GA, and just as he was getting into a car at curbside in front of their home, he remembered that he had left his wallet in the house. So he and his girlfriend went back in to retrieve it. As they went into the house, two African-American males, approx. 15 years of age, approached three of his friends and asked for the time. His friends told them the time and the teens then said, "Thanks for that, now we'll take your wallet." One of my nephew's friends, who had just been paid the day before, refused to hand over his wallet. "I don't want to give you that," he said.
With that, one of the teens pulled a handgun and shot him twice. No further conversation, no warning, no threat. Just "pop - pop" and my nephew's friend was down. His assailant then went through his pockets and took the wallet from him as he lay bleeding on the ground. The two attackers then ran off. My nephew, who has some medical training, was able to minimize bleeding until the ambulance arrived. I am told that the young man will recover, with two gunshot wounds to his thighs. One bullet went through and through, the other will be left where it is.

I share this story because it illustrates just how quickly a situation can go from OK to shtf, and how important it is to be alert and prepared for potentially deadly encounters. Of course, my liberal nephew is totally anti-gun and would never carry. He is a very lucky young man. I hope his luck holds. That said, if you are licensed to carry, this little story illustrates that we live in a world where danger can literally be on our doorstep, and a firearm at home in the gunsafe won't be much help to you should you happen to run into the same fine young men who shot my nephew's friend last night.
Just as most auto accidents happen close to home vs. miles away, you don't have to be in a bad neighborhood to run into bad people.
 

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mark1174 - Thanks for sharing this with us. Your nephew's friend could have just as easily been killed as wounded in that attack. This just serves to remind all of us how quickly and unexpectedly bad things can happen. There's no escaping the presence of bad people regardless of where you are.
 

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The scary thing about this is the "15 Year olds" part. There has been a rash of young teens doing the armed robery thing, maybe someone should tell them they are in violation of federal gun law being in possession, any one here think that that would actually slow them down?:scratch:
 

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I'm very relieived that he will be ok. Lucky, lucky man.

What if your nephew had been armed, shoot them in the back when they leave?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Regarding the Federal Violation ---

I rather doubt that these two "gentlemen" were concerned with the legal ramifications of their actions when they shot my nephew's friend. My sense is they were relying upon our illustrious legal system and some distant relative of Johnnie Cochran to allow them to file suit against the victim for resisting their very reasonable request, and live the rest of their lives in luxury based upon a generous settlement from a jury of their peers. But that's just my opinion.

Regarding shooting them when they were running away, I would never have done that. Shooting someone over stolen property is illegal. Instead, I would have shot them when they first asked for the wallet. And then again as they were falling down. And several more times as they were writhing in agony on the ground. And if there were any rounds left, as I was calling for an ambulance. But that's just me. Having lived a bit longer than my lucky nephew, I am not quite as liberal as he is.
 

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Sheldonj said:
The scary thing about this is the "15 Year olds" part. There has been a rash of young teens doing the armed robery thing, maybe someone should tell them they are in violation of federal gun law being in possession, any one here think that that would actually slow them down?:scratch:
I hate to tell you this but I am a Juvenile Officer working in juvenile hall. 20 years ago, we stopped taking status offenders (runaways, curfew violations, etc.). 10 years ago, we stopped taking misdemeanors and most non-serious felonies. The reason was because we had no room to house anything but serious felonies. Our facility has an official capacity of 435 minors but we usually run at about 475. In 2001, our new high security unit, that houses up to 60 minors, was completed. This was supposed to allow us to move the 40 minors we keep at the county jail facility back to our facility. This unit houses mostly murderers, attempted murderers and armed robbers. The rest of our facility handles strongarm robberies, 2 sex offender units of 22 minors each, 2 female housing units, including one that houses up to 60 females.

All of this is to say that even our kids are living much more violently. My co-workers and I, many of whom go armed off-duty, joke about how they wouldn't need to worry about the waiting period if they just "shopped locally" from kids we know.

Regards,

Jeff
 

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...trouble is - it could only have been prevented by a very wary, alert and active CCW person. Meaning, someone - and I'm talking about how I would have approached the scenario - would have had to have moved into a tactical position, with their weapon readied (halfway or otherwise out but still concealed to these punks) and been ready for the first sign of bigger trouble. And even then, the time between them firing at this poor soul and one's reaction time and/or ability to effectively negate the threat would depend wholly on how quickly things deteriorated. From the sounds of your story, I'd have hopefully been moving and drawing while the perp went for his gun - and been quick enough to fire before his weapon swept the innocents. Like most good CCW folks, I've got "dirtbag sense" when it comes to crap like this - but the scenario you paint sounds all too scary - meaning there was literally no time between the gun coming out and the shooting (I also assume this guy, as most anyone, would gladly give up their wallet no matter how stuffed with cash, when confronted with a firearm).

Perhaps a few more details surrounding the tactical aspects of the encounter - where people were, how many and their relative proximity could shed light on how the scenario would have/could have been prevented by a CCW.

It helps to remind those who don't understand carrying that random violence is just that - random.
 

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Oh, the poor dears!

Warning. Extreme sarcasm in this post. Maybe not, I might just rant. There was a similar incident near my place two days ago. Two darlings walked into a pizza joint and pulled knives on the owner/manager. Owner/manager then proceeded to shoot them both, killing one. Does the local media care that an innocent man was targeted for violence? No, only that a poor, underpriviliged(sp?) minority was killed and another of society's darlings needs a patch job. The liberal nephew is a victim of the same ideology that the pizza guy was and the kiddies who do this stuff get away with it because society says it's not their fault.
 

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IMHO, the fact that the attackers were minorities has nothing to do with this. Had it been two affluent, white males who committed this crime, the bleeding heart liberals would still excuse them. Most likely, the reason in such a case would be "they needed attention from their parents and were just looking for a thrill." That seemed to be the excuse for a group of fairly wealth young white and hispanic girls who committed a bunch of robberies down here in Texas a few years back.

I hope the poster's nephew and his friends, all come out of this stronger and wiser for their experience. The key lessons to me still have everything to do with situational awareness and flunking the selection process for victimization. We've probably all heard the how to's on this a thousand times. But it's important to remember above all else, DO SOMETHING! If all you do is go along with the program, you are guaranteed to be little more than bait.
 

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mark1174 said:
I would have shot them when they first asked for the wallet. And then again as they were falling down. And several more times as they were writhing in agony on the ground. And if there were any rounds left, as I was calling for an ambulance. But that's just me. Having lived a bit longer than my lucky nephew, I am not quite as liberal as he is.
Beautiful.
 

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Kimber Dude said:
It could only have been prevented by a very wary, alert and active CCW person.
Not in this case. Saying they were going to take the wallets was the start of an armed robbery, but the BGs weapon was not yet out. If one started the draw stroke then, the BG would probably not realize that you weren't complying until you came out with a pistol, rather than a wallet. I wouldn't suggest you spend a lot of time discussing things at that point.
 

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Act first?

Proper actions by the victim are becoming cloudy at this point of the discussion. I'm wondering if it would not be proper to actually draw a weapon and present it to a ready position at the beginning of this scenario, while at the same time moving to cover and telling the "do bads" in no uncertain terms that they have picked the wrong victim. YOU, the weapon holder, have not necessarily provoked the "do bads" as THEY are the one or ones who initially provoked. I suppose this would only apply in those states where there is no "duty to retreat".

If the "do bad" then went for a weapon one would have all of the prerequisites for a SD scenario, but be on the front side of the reaction curve. Thoughts on this please.....
 

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“My 21 year-old nephew, who is more liberal than John Kerry, was involved in a robbery-shooting last night.”

Just out of curiosity, what’s his leaning now.

:confused:

This is the time to invite him and his friends to the range, just to see what its all about.

;)
 

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master gunner said:
“My 21 year-old nephew, who is more liberal than John Kerry, was involved in a robbery-shooting last night.”

Just out of curiosity, what’s his leaning now.

:confused:

This is the time to invite him and his friends to the range, just to see what its all about.

;)
I agree. I had a NYC liberal friend years ago who spouted all of the they are underprivleged, blah, blah, blah. Then he got escorted to his apartment at gun point by one of these "underprivleged" youths who then tied him up, and casually searched his apartment, even eating my friend's candy from his candy dish right in front of him! You should have seen him after this happened--instant conservative. He would have bought a gun, but alas he lives in NYC.

By the way, the police actually caught this guy and my friend testified against him where he was convicted.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Regarding My Illustrious Nephew

I have not had a chance to speak with him directly since the incident. I heard the story of the encounter from his mother. I would venture to guess that this has not changed his point of view one bit, but that would be conjecture. This is a kid who went to New York during the Republican convention and slept in a park, to "protest". My sense is that he believes his friend should have turned over his wallet at the BG's first request, and all would have been well. After all, it's just a forced re-distribution of personal wealth, moving it from the haves to the have-nots, just like taxes. And I KNOW he is in favor of taxes.
 

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Ski3918 said:
Then he got escorted to his apartment at gun point by one of these "underprivleged" youths who then tied him up, and casually searched his apartment, even eating my friend's candy from his candy dish right in front of him!
LOL. The candy dish was just the last freakin straw!!!

:biglaugh:

Duke Nukem paraphrase: Nobody eats from our candy dishes... and lives!
 

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Mus said:
LOL. The candy dish was just the last freakin straw!!!

:biglaugh:

Duke Nukem paraphrase: Nobody eats from our candy dishes... and lives!
That's exactly what he said!
 

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Regarding shooting them when they were running away, I would never have done that. Shooting someone over stolen property is illegal.


What about the guy lying on the ground with 2 holes in him...doesn't that count?:mummy:
 

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mark1174
Thank you for the post we can all learn from this.

ocpd44
This is what scares me the most, a "young" assailant and how deadly they can be.

I've gotten to the point that when someone asks me the time I go into condition red, I tell them the time from memory, move my hand to my hip and keep eye contact.

It's the innocent questions that catch you off guard. Trust your gut instincts.
 

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I don't have anything in any pocket, . . . on my wrist, . . . or around my neck that is worth taking two rounds for.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
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