1911Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I want & was just about to pay for kimber 1911 california warrior , but I asked to pull the slide off & I found that swartz saftey . What the heck , HUGE dissapointment. I have other 1911 that I bought this year with no swartz safte y . Why the california model was chosen by kimber is the question WHy!!!!. So now the hunt continiues for a ful size steel framed black but not blued with a rail & night sights 1911 for home & that day .
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

The breeze in Kalifornia
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
826 Posts
windsheer said:
I want & was just about to pay for kimber 1911 california warrior , but I asked to pull the slide off & I found that swartz saftey .
The Kimber trigger safety is activated by the grip safety rather than the trigger (like the series 80) correct?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,485 Posts
All Kimbers have this safety as far as I know. All made this Century. Got nothing to do with California.

Activated off the grip safety.

The parts remove easily.

-- Chuck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
The swartz safty is part of the grip safty . Try gripping the pistol & install the slide . That one of the reason I don't like it but as far as a target pistol it should not really factor into a life or death trigger timing problem. But I want this pistol as my in home defendse or when I carry a full size (which is not the norm) pistol for when I hear a noise ect. I like Kimbers & I want the most reliable platform for the stated reasons.

I had a feeling when a gun salesman I overheard on the phone say we should have a califonia warrior here soon. I thought whats the difference . Now I know.

Some copied kimber info below :

Other than finish, the Desert Warrior is similar to the new Warrior™ (the Warrior has the more traditional matte black aKimPro). Both are full-size pistols with Kimber's integral Tactical Rail for flashlight mounting. Unique in the Kimber® line, Warriors have traditional 1911 features like short guide rods for easy field stripping, internal extractors, and both do not incorporate the Kimber Series II trigger system.



I would think this would be a great selling point so why make a California warrior that has a swartzs saftey in it when it is not required by law . Many other California legal pistols don't have it.


The hunt continues.............
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
948 Posts
It's not a trigger safety... it's a firing pin safety. Warriors don't have the FPS except the ones made for sale in California. They are Warrior II's.

Tomcatt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
248 Posts
Removing Safety

Just drift off the rear sight. There's a spring and plunger under there that makes up the safety. pull them out and push the rear sight back on. Done.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
triigger effects the firing pin

Tomcat for you to understand my point !

Thanks to Hilton Yam for his concise explanation !

Firing pin safeties typically fall into the Colt Series 80 pattern which are actuated by the trigger (Colt Series 80, Para Ordnance, Sig GSR) and the Swartz style safety which is actuated by the grip safety (Kimber, Smith & Wesson). The platforms utilizing the Swartz safety are a less than ideal choice across the board due to the inherent reliability problems of the design. The Swartz safety is extremely sensitive to the fit of the grip safety to the frame and the timing of the grip safety's trigger blocking arm.
TRIGGER

Tolerance issues can also lead to a Swartz safety that will time properly when the grip safety is depressed a certain way, and time differently when depressed a different way. This will typically be a product of loose fit of the grip safety to the frame tangs and/or loose fit of the thumb safety shaft through the grip safety.

It is possible to have the grip safety timed such that the trigger will be able to release the sear well before the firing pin safety plunger has been moved far enough to clear the firing pin. Problems with improper timing of the Swartz safeties can lead to a situation where you get a "click" when you wanted a "bang." That's a serious problem.



Unless department policy mandates a firing pin safety, I would choose a 1911 without one. It is possible to have a drop safe 1911 without the firing pin safety, and given the potential reliability problems with a poorly executed system, the perceived risk of drop safety is outweighed by the real risk of a failure to firecat the swarts safty.


Thanks again Hilton Yam



Anyway back to my original point/problem is why would Kimber chose to short change the Californian market with not as true a warrior ? More of a cosmetic Warrior . Bummer for me & Not much in overall sales but one less for Kimber


The hunt will continue
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,062 Posts
Chuck S said:
All Kimbers have this safety as far as I know. All made this Century. Got nothing to do with California.

Activated off the grip safety.

The parts remove easily.

-- Chuck

You are mistaken.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
248 Posts
Windsheer

Have you thought about a COLT GunSite? They are still producing them and are sold exclusively by the pro-shop at Gun Site. It is an awesome pistol.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,485 Posts
I have been wrong before! Series II all have the firing pin interlock. So this isn't Series II?

No matter, the parts remove easily.

-- Chuck
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,298 Posts
Chuck S said:
I have been wrong before! Series II all have the firing pin interlock. So this isn't Series II?

No matter, the parts remove easily.

-- Chuck
I was surprised to see also, that the Warrior and the new SIS are not series II. Documentation on the new SIS states that it is not a series II gun in any state that does not require the FP safety. I assume California does require it so I further assume the Warrior and SIS both have the FP safety on guns sold in Cali. Of course that's a lot of ASSuME that I'm doing. :D

I'll try to post the PDF from Kimber on the SIS. See page 3.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
guns

I have a rock island 45 with series 70 with traditional spring plug
and a Dan wesson cbob 45 70 series traditional spring plug

both bought in San diego area both liked lots by me !

I seen high end guns like the browns with a light firing pin & strong fp spring
I cleaned at the reange a wilson It was identical to kimber frames but no swarts or anything else in there .
Help

all I want for christmas is a full size railed blacked-out 45 that
has every thing a kimber warrior has but series 70 & no mim parts
Must be a 1911 as well

A sprigfield trp operated is looking good . the gunsite colts will get my full attention any others out there .

Thanks for your replies!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
It's About Getting a Gun Certified for sale in CA

To the best of my knowledge, CA law does not require a 1911 type pistol to have a FPS. That's why some of the other guns you mentioned, like the Wilson, et al, do not.

CA law does, however, require that all hand guns sold in the state be "certified" and that process is difficult and onerous for the manufacturers. Based on multiple discussions with Kimber personnel re: what it takes to get a gun certified in CA and what guns they do or don't plan to certify, they indicate that the best and perhaps only way to get a gun certified in CA today is to be able to link its heritage to another gun that is already certified and say that "x is the same as y, therefore it should be certified". In Kimber's case, since only Series II guns with the FPS are currently certified, only other FPS type guns can then be certified as well, going forward. This certification, unfortunately, extends to such minor differences as color (i.e., a black gun and a stainless steel gun have to be individually certified).

The Warrior or its colored counterpart, the Desert Warrior, are Series I guns (no FPS) in every other state but CA. In CA, only the Warrior II, with FPS, is certified and approved for sale. It's not rational but it is what it is.

See http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ for the list of all guns certified for sale in CA or sort the list in various ways on Kimber to see what you can and cannot get.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,062 Posts
Chuck S said:
I have been wrong before! Series II all have the firing pin interlock. So this isn't Series II?

No matter, the parts remove easily.

-- Chuck
The Warrior doesn't have the schwartz. The Warrior II does, which is much less prevelant. For some reason they made some for sale in Cali. I don't understand it all but almost everyone who has a Warrior has a regular ole Warrior without the schwarz. The SIS supposedly doesn't have the Schwarz. There is one other model they presently make that doesn't and I think it is the Custom Target, or something like that.

All Pre Series II pistols did not have the schwarz, and there were plenty of them made "in this century".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,062 Posts
windsheer said:
I have a rock island 45 with series 70 with traditional spring plug
and a Dan wesson cbob 45 70 series traditional spring plug

both bought in San diego area both liked lots by me !

I seen high end guns like the browns with a light firing pin & strong fp spring
I cleaned at the reange a wilson It was identical to kimber frames but no swarts or anything else in there .
Help

all I want for christmas is a full size railed blacked-out 45 that
has every thing a kimber warrior has but series 70 & no mim parts
Must be a 1911 as well

A sprigfield trp operated is looking good . the gunsite colts will get my full attention any others out there .

Thanks for your replies!
pretty sure the springy has MIM. I'd look at the RRA's. :D
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top