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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, I need some advice on these pistols I ran across today. I describe them the best I can...
1) 1917 Colt 1911, civilian. Grip safety is the longer version of the 'A1. Grips don't look original, they are not double diamond, but I could be wrong. Finish is, I'm guessing after looking at pictures in the Blue Book, around 60-70%. Everything else says brand new. Fit, function, bore are all excellent. She wants a little over $1100.
2) 1922 Colt 1911, civilian. All original, double diamond grips, slightly cracked as I remember. Finish is slightly better than the above 1917 model. Fit, function is excellent. Bore maybe slightly dark, but not real bad. She wanted $1095.
3) Argentine made 1911A1. Does not appear to be refinished. In about 70-80% blue finish. Fit, function, bore are excellent. The lanyard is bent as dsk described he's seen on these models. All SN match. She said this ones been here for 10 or more years too. Thats why I think it got here through other channels than the current ones availble. Also since the finish is original I'm thinking this. She wants around $395.
4) Arsenal refinished 1911. Has a Colt frame and a Savage slide. Of course looks like an issue 1911 except with a Savage slide and parkerized finish. Excellent shape, looks like it just left the arsenal! Just like the other guy, sorry forgot his name, posted the other day about his friend's dad's pistol. No box or papers but it was in a British web material flap holster, I think for a Webley revolver. She wanted, I believe, $1495!

I would take either of these, but would like your guys advice on the prices and quality. The SN on the two civi models were researched and verified btw. Please let rip with the advice. Thanks!

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They are all oddballs. Don't fit into collectors or shooters realm. If you want my advice get a NIB series 70 Government .45 or a NIB Ace .22. The two best collector or shooter values available. Second I would have to rate any pre WWII Commercial or Military 1911 or A1 in 95% or better at less than $1300 a good value. Third would be any high rated in value 1911 or A1. If you got the money North American Arms 1911 or Singer 1911. If you can find for less than $2000 a Commercial or Military 1911 before serial#500. Also 1911s of the more advanced collectors are any mentioned and WWI contract 1911s. The WWII contract 1911s are so numerous I don't even pay attention. My advice is leave the ones mentioned alone. The $395 Argentine might be wothwhile as its not a big chunk. Out of the real 1911 waiting around the corner.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Redzone, I forgot to mention that she also had 2 Series 70 Colt Govnt. models. Both with wood grips, blue finish, and .45ACP. Both also in near mint condition. She wanted around $900 something each for them.

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That is a little high for anything but new. Avoid Nickle it is awful looking. May be worth bartering on those 70s. If they are blue for instance in 98% I would offer $775. And go as high as $800. Used Colts are used Colts just remember that when dealing with people. And you are the only one at the moment interested and not very at that.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I wouldn't mind having one of those Series 70s. The're some of the nicest I've seen. I was just looking for an even older 1911, because of the history and all.... The only bad thing is this lady that owns the place. Of all the gun stores around here, she has a bad reputation for a couple of things....1) Being high on her prices to begin with and 2) Not coming down much on her prices. She's very bad to deal with because of this, but has the best selections of anybody around here. Thats what sucks!


Then again, I was born in '72. Having a Series 70 because its what was availble when I came into this world would be kinda cool too.


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[This message has been edited by M1991A1 (edited 05-08-2001).]

[This message has been edited by M1991A1 (edited 05-08-2001).]
 

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Originally posted by M1991A1:
Then again, I was born in '72. Having a Series 70 because its what was availble when I came into this world would be kinda cool too.


I have a Colt Government Model that was made in 1969, the same year I was born. Dunno why but I think that's kinda cool.


Regarding the bent lanyard loops on all these Argentine guns, I just gotta find out what they used to do with those things! Either the police routinely helped out and roofed houses with their 1911s, or more likely they conveniently discovered that heavy .45s are just as good as a club as a gun!
 

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I have a Russian SKS made in 1951, the year I was born, and that's the reason I bought it. I guess I'm not alone in that kind of thinking.
 

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Guys, that Savage slide military 1911 is an interesting known variation. Savage never produced complete 1911s during WWI, they came in too late - so there are no Savage pistols. But after WWI the parts they had produced - most notably slides - went into the Government Arsenal supply system. Eventually these were mated with Colt "spare" new frames became complete guns for issue. One was sold here locally last month for about $900 with a brown GI holster and Kaki web belt. I examined it, and the barrel fit was perfect - tight, with just a bit of slide play. If the one you are talking about is as good, I would consider it at a more reasonable price.

Warmly, Col. Colt

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Discussion Starter #10
Col.Colt...exactly what I was thinking. I learned about the Savage "pistols" just recently. I was mistaken before in thinking that they made complete pistols. Now I know better after the post on USGI the other day. This is exactly as his is and the one you are describing. I'm going back up there this weekend to look at it again. Apperantly all the "complete" Savage pistols are arsenal rebuilt, correct? Since they didn't make any frames? I would love to get it but she is so hard to deal with! She hardly budges on her prices up there but always has something that would make you drool! She also has an International Harvester Garand in almost NIB shape. It looks like its been qualified with maybe twice! Excellent shape.

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Some Savage slides have been seen on non-arsenal rebuilt guns, I have one that is a Arsenal job and seen pitcures of three others all three had the AA mark from augusta arsenal. Follow this link for pics of my example and notes.... http://coolgunsite.com/pistols/1911/1917%20Colt_Savage%20M1911.htm
I agree the price is high...



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Ty
www.CoolGunSite.com
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ty, I looked at your pictures the other day. Thats exactly how it looks. If I get up there this weekend and look at it again I'll look for the other markings I didn't get the first time around. Thanks for the info. Man I wish she wasn't such a hard-ass to deal with!

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[This message has been edited by M1991A1 (edited 05-10-2001).]
 

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Nothing in the group is really exciting to a collector, and unless you just want them as shooters I'd pass. Also, I don't see any great bargins in the bunch. The Savage/Colt may be a little suspicious.Lots of people do parkerizing and anybody can buy a holster and stick a gun in it. Sounds like you're not dealing with a novice here.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
What are you talking about concerning the Savage? Do you know anything about them? Well I know enough to know this one is legit, just expensive. I knew that before I posted it here, I just wanted to make sure before I seriously considered it. And also to share with everyone that I had gotten to see one for real.

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One of the cool things about the Savage/Colt AA guns is the Fact it was Colt Vs. Savage in the run offs. Can you imagen what it must have been like to have lost the Government contract to Colt, I mean according to the acounts I read Savage was slaughtered, and now relegated to build 1911s as a contractor. Not surprised they didnt ship a completed 1911 probably didnt have much motivation. If you get the savage/colt gun do what I did track down a Savage .32 model 1907 manufactured in 1911 makes a great conversation piece because the .45 savages where based on the little 1907. I found one 98% in the box made in 1911 for $250 bucks.
Cheers
Ty

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Ty
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Discussion Starter #16
Ty, I know, I read years ago about how the Savage came in second (I believe?) behind the Colt. I saw the pictures of them compared to the 1911. I also know about the history of their .32s and .380s. I still wouldn't mind having one of them. The had like 10 or 11 shot mags too! Pretty high capacity for back then. I too saw one last year at a flea market that was in pretty nice shape for around $300. I will probably get one next time I find one in good shape like that again.

I'm going to go barter with that chick about the Savage/Colt 1911. She's so hard headed about dealing, but I'm going to do my best. I really want that thing!

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If you can't get her to go below a grand you'd better pass. It sounds to me like she's one of those who's got money set aside elsewhere, and doen't need to be in a hurry to sell any of those guns. If not she would need a better turnaround to stay in business. It's like one pawn shop I know. They were selling a Nazi issue P-38 for $1600, which is well above the going rate of around $500- $600. They never budge on their prices, most likely because they make enough money on defaulted loans to not have to worry.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
dsk, You hit the nail right on the head. She has more guns in her shop than all the people on this board combined! I swear! No, they are not all out on display, but she has several hundred I'm sure. I first went up there in the mid '80s when I was about 15 or 16. I swear I remember her or someone telling me they easily had over a million dollors worth of inventory. You name it, she has it. I swear if I asked if she had one of Buck Rogers' ray guns she could go back there and bring it out!


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