[HPwhit]

The other day I won an Inglis at auction for dirt cheap. Gary Cole HP cheap. I had no intention of adding another Hi Power to the collection (I actually already have a tangent sighted Inglis with shoulder stock) but I was following an auction where an Inglis sold for 450 odd dollars. From what I could piece together, the seller would not ship to a C&R holder for some reason and the pistol was relisted. I got it for $465. It's a buyers market right now apparently.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=501179729

Anyways, I don't own Inglis Diamond and was wondering in what year a "6T6xxx" Inglis would have been made...?

There is no "FTR" (Full Thorough Repair) marking on this pistol which I found strange. All fixed sight Inglis guns I've seen have had the FTR 63.

 

[submoa]

August '45

Congrats, had it on my "Watch List" but forgot about it .....

 

[Jäger1]

There is no "FTR" (Full Thorough Repair) marking on this pistol which I found strange. All fixed sight Inglis guns I've seen have had the FTR 63.

Not strange at all.

Canada has been pulling brand new, unfired, complete with original decal Inglis pistols out of stores over the last 10+ years of the war in Afghanistan as their need for pistols in theater accelerated above the number they had in circulation among the troops. First thing the soldier who gets one of those does is, he probably scratches his head, grabs the CLP, and gets rid of that messy decal while cleaning the storage grease off. They've been sitting there all these years and some of them are still sitting there. Haven't seen the light of day since the day an Inglis employee test fired them, did final inspection, applied the preservative, and put them in that brown cardboard box.

My Inglis, pictured here in some other thread, still has most of the decal still in place (btw, there are not a few unscrupulous people out there applying phony decals to Inglis pistols, mostly on the gun show circuit). Clive Law has written a bit about these (he served with the Googlie Fooglies in the early '70s). How it or all the rest of the Inglis pistols in circulation got out of the military system and into the civilian world I have no idea, although Law would probably know if you were curious enough to email via his web pages and ask him. Or you could go to http://www.milsurps.com/ ... bunch of old Canadian and Brit gun plumbers hang out there and provide SME on Canadian/Brit weaponry.

Would have happened no later than Trudeau coming into power (think of Obama, Mk 1, while Barry was losing some of his younger years to drugs and booze with the Choom Gang) circa the 70's. He too got his start as an "intellectual" and activist who spent WWII riding around Montreal on a motorcycle wearing a German infantry helmet. Canada was very tolerant of both handguns and most surplus military weaponry being sold to the citizenry under the previous prime minister (who had been a WWI fighter pilot). Trudeau is when handguns suddenly became restricted weapons with restrictions on where they could be carried and used, gun registry started, citizens needed to first be licensed before they could own firearms, etc. Any of this sound familiar?

I do know that anything like surplus Inglis pistols being released to the public will never happen again. The Canadian government has decided that it will upset the balance of world peace if surplus military/police weapons that are otherwise legal were to be sold to the public and help the federal coffers out a bit. Even the RCMP's old bolt action Winchester Model 70 .308 rifles went to the smelter as they were declared surplus.

So when Canada ever does finally choose a new general service pistol, all those Inglis pistols, including the ones still unfired in the box complete with decal, will be sent to the smelter under police/military armed escort. Just as was done with all the FN-FALs, and the Lee Enfield No.4's that hadn't already escaped government clutches into the wild.

It's kind of funny. The Canadian government will sell a warship, complete with crypto gear still installed, to the Chinese government about four years ago. But they won't sell an Inglis or a Lee Enfield to a Canadian citizen.

And this, boys and girls, is why tigers eat their young.

 

[HPwhit]

First off, thanks submoa, for August 1945 tip. Cool that it was made in the last month of the war.

Here's my Chinese contract Inglis and stock, the pistol is a 1944 production and the stock is from 1945. Seen alongside a Remington Model 81 which I have since parted with.



Jager, you are actually who I was hoping would show up. I've seen your Hi Powers before on here. Very nice.

So because my soon to be arriving Inglis is not an FTR, it is probably Canadian? I think the location might support this, it came from a small gun store just miles from the New York border, and in fairly close proximity to Ontario. I actually considered driving up for a local pickup, but found it too inconvenient. Bradford, PA is actually closer to Ontario than it is to me in Western PA.

Does the Rack number "M19" mean anything to you? Would this just be an armorer's way of keeping track of the gun?

 

[submoa]

You are most welcome HPwhit

FWIW, in the course of deciding whether to add it to my GB "Watch List", I noted the lack of an FTR myself...but, also noted it appeared as if the current finish might have been applied over the SNs. As we know, SNs were originally pantographed after the phosphate finish, leaving the SN "in-the-white" and quite distinct.

If that proves to be the case upon arrival, perhaps Jager would comment?

 

[Jäger1]

So because my soon to be arriving Inglis is not an FTR, it is probably Canadian? I think the location might support this, it came from a small gun store just miles from the New York border, and in fairly close proximity to Ontario. I actually considered driving up for a local pickup, but found it too inconvenient. Bradford, PA is actually closer to Ontario than it is to me in Western PA.

First, I am not among the BHP experts that can be found here. I'll usually refer you to Submoa or others for minutiae. However, this one is pretty simple: if it's an Inglis, it's Canadian. Maybe not intended for Canadian use, but Canadian

FTR'd or not would depend on whether it ever got used/abused enough to fail some part of the gun plumber checks at first or second line maintenance where an FTR is specified. I've seen some Lee Enfield's that have been FTR'd twice. And I've never seen a Ross that was ever FTR'd.

Another point of interest you might enjoy concerning Inglis. There are a few Long Branch No. 4 Mk 1 rifles with six groove barrels. The Long Branch rifles were usually two and then later five groove barrels. The odd (and much prized) six groove barrels were made from Inglis Bren gun barrels from across town.

There's a start for you.

That aside, Inglis is as Canadian as hockey. You might even be able to get parts here:

http://www.inglis.ca/

Or maybe not... back to their old business. Inglis previously made the swap from appliances to war production in WWI when they made artillery shells among other things. In WWII, they not only made the BHP, they made the majority of the Bren guns used by the Commonwealth militaries in WWII.

Veronica Foster probably worked on HPs and Brens both at one time or another during the war:

Maybe yours is in here:

Or maybe not... Inglis apparently employed over 4,000 women during WWII.

Does the Rack number "M19" mean anything to you? Would this just be an armorer's way of keeping track of the gun?

Probably just that - the RQMS's number to keep track of them. It's a lot easier to write two or three figures down as a long line of soldiers draw and sign for weapons, than read and transpose the serial number of each weapon. Signing out weapons by vault number rather than serial number is usually the way it is done, for just that reason.

Be interesting to see if there's anything different or unusual once you take pics

 

[oleblu72]

Congrats on your excellent purchase that's a very good price and it looks like its in decent shape.

Mark

 

[Burgs]

Jager,

No photos showing on my screen for your above post.

 

[GT40DOC]

Nor on mine!!

 

[Jäger1]

Jager,

No photos showing on my screen for your above post.

That is weirdness Burgs... didn't show up on mine either. I can see the links when I choose "edit", but the pics don't display. How about if I copy and paste the text and links out of the edit window:

Maybe yours is in here:

Okay, that is weirdness. The links won't show up even as simple text until I put some spaces in between the full colons and the forward slashes.

Remove those spaces from the links above and they should work.

BTW, "Ronnie the Bren Gun Girl" proceeded Rosie the Riveter by a couple of years and is thought to be an inspiration for the Rosie idea. There's a Canadian Film Board short film on Veronica Foster and all the other women that worked in the Inglis and Long Branch weapons factories. Some of those old ladies could still handle a Bren or a High Power pretty slick, even though they hadn't seen or touched one in over 50 years. I'm not much for watching films, but the stories of those women coming into Inglis with no technical training or background whatsoever, and ending up running lathes, milling machines, shapers, etc in a few short weeks is pretty impressive.

 

[dsk]

...I was following an auction where an Inglis sold for 450 odd dollars. From what I could piece together, the seller would not ship to a C&R holder for some reason and the pistol was relisted...

There are a lot of FFL's out there who refuse to accept a C&R. I've run into a few of them myself. It's asinine because they're supposed to treat it just like another FFL. That's because it IS an FFL, just one with specific restrictions on how it can be used and applied. But they seem to get into business without knowing the laws well and end up being afraid to accept a C&R because they're not sure how to deal with it.

Anyway, that's a nice Inglis you've got there. I've long considered getting one myself but I never managed to free up the funds I keep using to buy more 1911s instead.

 

[Jäger1]

Anyway, that's a nice Inglis you've got there. I've long considered getting one myself but I never managed to free up the funds I keep using to buy more 1911s instead.

I have a pretty nice Inglis that I'll never sell. But if I was just some guy wanting a really nice BHP to shoot and possibly carry, and not somebody who valued historic/collectable pistols, an Inglis would be towards the bottom of my list.

There is nothing mechanically wrong with them. But for all the nostalgia value and everything that goes with it, you still have to deal with those sights. And they suck. The original safety lever, the magazine disconnect, the original extractor... none of that detracts from how useable the gun is. 1911 guys generally don't like the original safety, but if you don't come to the BHP from the paddle platform and were taught to wipe the safety off with the thumb knuckle of your right hand, the original safety is just fine.

But oh.... those sights. To be fair, good enough for across-a-grape-hut distances. But the older you get, the worse they are.

 

[dsk]

I agree, but I'm more of a collector than a shooter. I agree that the combination of tiny sights and safety lever, rough military-issue trigger and so forth probably makes an Inglis feel like shooting a hunk of junk compared to a modern Hi-Power that's been slicked up.

 

[HPwhit]

Got it!

The trigger pull is pretty good for the gun still having its mag safety in place. I do not plan to remove it. I would estimate the pull at 7-8 lbs.

The sight picture is actually much better than FN Original Hi Powers, I would argue.

I'll post pics when I can.

 

[Jäger1]

I agree, but I'm more of a collector than a shooter. I agree that the combination of tiny sights and safety lever, rough military-issue trigger and so forth probably makes an Inglis feel like shooting a hunk of junk compared to a modern Hi-Power that's been slicked up.

Well, "slicked up" being compared to a vanilla Inglis isn't really a fair apples to apples comparison.

The Inglis sights are probably superior to the original sights on my 69C; although neither of them look very good once you get a bit of grey in your hair.

Most people who never visited the 1911 world before coming to the HP like the Inglis safety just fine. I prefer the Inglis style safety to the newer BHP safety - it's just as easy to click off, and it doesn't get in your way. If I'd spent years shooting a 1911 before trying the Inglis/HP, I'd probably feel different.

I'm not aware that the Inglis trigger is materially different than a new commercial version HP. In fact, shooting the Inglis's, those pistols as a group seem to have better triggers than new HPs straight out of the box

For me at least, the big thing with the Inglis is the sights. Not a big deal, but drops it in the rankings.