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Well, I now have a new STI Edge for IPSC. Awseome workmanship and balance so far. Shoots well. It looks like it want's long-loaded .40 (somewhere around 1.180 to 1.190). I loaded my para to 1.145, but you can go longer in the STI bull barrel. Fit and finish is awesome!
 

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I have one too, and I love it. I can't believe how much better I shoot with it than I did with my heavily customized Para P16.

You are right about the Edge liking longer OAL ammo but that's typical of most 1911 type guns with the .40. The guns are really sized for the longer .45 ACP round and there's just no getting around the dimensions and angles of the magazine/feed ramp/chamber interface.

I'm loading to 1.200" and it's run flawlessly in 5 or 6 matches with basically no break in period. I might have run 60 rounds through it before the first match.
Note that I'm not suggesting that not practicing is a good idea. :-(
 

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I am looking at having Dawson build me an Edge in .38TJ. Yeah, I know it will be minor, but can you imagine a more reliable, easier to shoot pistol???
 

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What do you think the 38TJ would buy you in reliability over the .40? The advantage of the 38TJ over .38 Super is that's it's a rimless case, like the .40, and therefore strips off the mag easier, that's it. The only other advantage the 38TJ would have over the .40 is you'd pick up an extra round or two. I have an STI/EGW .38 Super open gun and an Edge and over the course of any given match, it might mean one, maybe two extra reloads with the .40 which is not enough to offset the point loss by shooting minor.

I also disagree that the 38TJ would be easier to shoot. In general, for a given power factor in an uncompensated gun, heavier bullets with fast powder offer a recoil impluse that is more easily controlled than a light, fast bullet. That's why 180 and 200 gr. bullets are so common in .40 limited guns. It's hard to get much above 150gr. in .38 bullets.

As a practical matter, I think my Edge is easier to shoot than my open gun. The open gun is lighter than the Edge and while the comp keeps the gun flat, it actually comes back harder than the limited gun and has more of a sharp whack than the smooth soft push of the Edge. Ultimately the open gun is faster, especially about 12 yards out or more where the dot and the comp really start to make a difference, but close in - 7 yards or less, the Edge is every bit as fast as the open gun.
 

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kbear38s:

I am talking about a 38TJ loaded to minor with a power factor of perhaps 130. I have carpal tunnel, messed up shoulders, bone chips in one elbow, and the list goes on. I am working with Paul and Dave at Dawson's and we are trying to come up with a pistol that has minimal muzzle flip, etc. For light bullets, low recoil, etc., the .38 or 9mm is a better choice than the .40.
 

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Ankeny, in can somewhat sympathize with you. I've had chronic tendonitis in my elbows from driving a keyboard for 9 or 10 hours a day for the last 15 years and shooting high velocity ammo definitely jolts my elbows.

I'm not going to try to second guess Dave Dawson but if it's at all possible, you might try to find somebody with an STI Edge or equivalent and shoot it with some downloaded .40s. A friend of mine had some 40s loaded with 155s that was so wimpy it wouldn't cycle my Para with a 14lb spring and I started my wife out on a Kimber 45 with 230s downloaded to 135 pf.

The only real drawback of downloading like that is the pressures don't get high enough to seal the brass in the chamber and the gun accumulates more soot in the breech/chamber area. Not a big problem but I always wondered why my wife's minor PF stuff was diriter than the major loads. You might try loading with Hogden Clays which is about the softest shooting powder around -- just don't try to make major using 200 gr. bullets with it.

38TJ is definitely the best thing going in the 38Super/9mm range but the brass is damn expensive. Used 40 is so cheap these days half the people don't even bother picking it off the range.

Also, make sure your new gun has a tungsten guide rod. They really take the sharpness out of the recoil impulse and while I haven't personally tried one, you might be even better off with a Sprinco tungsten recoil reducer.

Good luck with whatever you come up with.

Oh yeah, one other important thing -- an extended dustcover STI or SV may not be limited legal in the USPSA because a gun has to be produced in sufficent quantity to be considered a production gun. That means that one or both must have produced 500 extended dustcover guns in super (maybe combined with 9mm but I'm not sure). While I doubt you'd have a problem at a club match, it could get you bumped into open division at a major match.
 

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Long dust covered guns from STI and SV have been legal in IPSC limited class for a couple of years. THe extra weight will make the gun shoot very shoft. I had a STI with long dust cover, full slide and tungsten barrel sleeve and guide rod. very very soft. However the extra wright does make the gun slow to move compared to a light gun. depends on how you like to shoot. The disadvantage to the 38TJ would be shooting minor, but will go up in round count by a few over the 40. To me the choice would be between to shoot minor vs. your aches and pains. A minor caliber gun in 38TJ or super would be like shooting a 22. The impulse would be very low. The challenge would be to balance the minor load with the added weight of the heavy gun to make it function reliably. I thought about building a gun like that, only because I sold off all my 40 mags, and have a ton of 38/9mm mags for that frame. Show us pictures when you get your gun. Good Luck
 

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Hello!

I have an Edge in .40 and have used a variety of loads in it from minor to major all with 180gr bullets. I also have a Colt custom in .38 Super that I have used a variety of loads in and a .38 Super Competitor from STI.

Using light loads in a comp'd gun doesn't make sense ( unless it was comp'd accordingly) so I won't make any comparisons there.

In shooting my .40 with light loads and comparing it to a 9mm, I would have to agree that the recoil is quite manageable. I have let others (newbies) shoot my Edge with light loads and they have indicated that it was easier to control and handle than 9mm.

I believe that one of the only reasons to use 38 super is because of the relatively high pressures one can produce which are required to get most comps working. I, too, won't second guess Mr. Dawson as he put together my open gun and it runs wonderfully but question the economics of your undertaking. If you light load your .38, why not use light 9mm and save a ton of money on brass?

My Colt Custom in .38 Super is definitely harder to control than my .40 but it is a completely different gun so it may be hard to draw a meaningful comparison.

Given your injuries, perhaps it is torque that is contributing negatively to your situation. In that case, make sure that you don't use lead bullets. Lead "bites" more than plated or jacketed bullets at similar pressures.

I am interested to learn more about your experiment as it progresses. It never hurts to have another handgun....

DK
 

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Originally posted by eerw:
Long dust covered guns from STI and SV have been legal in IPSC limited class for a couple of years.
I don't know if you were replying to my comment about the legality of long dustcover guns but it's not just the frame configuration, it's a given frame configuration in a given caliber. An aquaintence of mine wanted an Edge in 10mm in the worst way for USPSA/IPSC Limited Division and was told by John Amidon that the Edge (actually any extended dustcover STI/SV) would not be legal in 10mm until 500 had been produced and been available at retail level for 1 year. Last spring, STI met that requirement and produced the first USPSA Limited legal Edge in 10mm. I seen no reason to expect that an Edge in .38 Super, 9x23, or .38 TJ would be any different.

All I'm saying is take the time and contact the USPSA first if there's any chance you'd want to shoot a major match any time soon because the gun would likely cause the shooter to be bumped to open division. At club matches, it's probably not a problem.
 

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kbear38s:

You were right, the .38TJ goes into open, not enough produced and it is a change from the manufacturers original chambering. Looks like I am going to go with the .40. Still, I think the .38 TJ will make an awesome open pistol.
 

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Originally posted by Ankeny:
You were right, the .38TJ goes into open, not enough produced and it is a change from the manufacturers original chambering. Looks like I am going to go with the .40.
I think you'll find you can load some real cream puff loads with the .40. Try some 155gr and 165gr bullets and experiment with Hogden Clays, Alliant American Select, Vihta Vouri N320, and maybe even IMR SR7625. I think Montana Gold and Star Bullets both make .40 FMJ in those weights.

Don't forget to load your rounds long - 1.180" to 1.220" OAL -- I use 1.200". There's no getting around the geometry of the 1911s and 2011s is still based on the .45 ACP and I've found that the longer rounds just feed better.
 

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I use SR7625 in most of my reloading for handgun. It is versatile, clean and meters exceptionally well. I agree that with some relatively light bullets and loads that the .40 is a piece of cake to shoot. I load to OAL of 1.2 - in addition to feeding more reliably (the sti mags might not feed the last bullet if not long enough - the gun thinks you're empty) it reduces the pressure and changes the recoil impulse dramatically. I also use Star bullets but in 180 as I shoot IPSC.
 

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Originally posted by DakotaKid:
I also use Star bullets but in 180 as I shoot IPSC.
I use SR7625 in my 38 Super open gun and sometimes in my .40 limited gun. I was using the SR7625 and Alliant American Select with 200 gr. bullets but that was for 175 power factor. I just got my Edge in mid-season this year and didn't get around to working up any new loads.

I had about 1/2 lb of 7625 left in a can that I wanted to use up and I bought some 165gr bullets to load practice ammo for my STI LS-40. They chronoed at 175PF in the Edge so I decided to shoot the weekend's match with them in my brand new Edge*. They felt real good though they were loaded at 1.135" AOL (I think... Same as American Eagle 165 FMJTC) and I did have a couple feed problems. Anyway, they felt good enough that I ordered a case of Montana Gold 165s that I'm going to try for awhile.

*Note: Sight the gun in BEFORE shooting the match. Adjustable sights are relatively useless if you don't adjust them. Duh....
 

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How about shooting 357 sig in your STI LS40?
115 or 124 gr bullets for minor in your already 40 gun. Brass is cheaper than 38TJ. Would be great for shooting steel matches. And store bought ammo makes major without the pressures of a 38 super. 357 sig brass has a thicker web base.
 

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Originally posted by angie diaz:
How about shooting 357 sig in your STI LS40?
It's not legal for IPSC or USPSA in that calibler. 500 guns have to be manufactured in a given caliber/frame combination and have to be available at a dealer level for 1 year.


Besides, Ankeny was interested in downloaded the round to minor PF. The .357 Sig buys nothing at reduced charges except potentially more feed problems. While widely claimed otherwise, bottleneck cartridges DO NOT feed better than straight or taper walled cartridges. They have a tendancy to nose dive in the magazine and require much more critically engineered and dimensioned mags than straight walled carts.
 
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