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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Living in NJ, the corrupt politician capital of the USA CC was never an issue, it was impossible to get but even the moronic Governor wasn’t about to take on SCOTUS and their recent ruling.
So I can get a CC Permit, maybe. The shooting requirements are absurd. You shoot 50 rounds with the sidearm you intend to carry, 1/3 of the shots two handed and the other 2/3 one handed between your weak and strong hands as follows,
25 Yards - 5 rounds, must hit target with at least 4 rounds
20 Yards - 5 rounds, must hit 4 of the 5
15 Yards - 15 rounds, must hit 12 of the 15
10 Yards - 15 “ “ “ “
7 Yards - 5 rounds must hit 4
5 Yards - “ “ “ “
This is meant to fail 80% of those that take the test. I have yet to hear of any other State in the country that has such requirements. I don’t care how able a shooter you are, try hitting the standard FBI target at 25 yards with 80% accuracy. Not very easy and once you pass 50 years of age it’s almost impossible. I had to buy a new Sig Sauer 365XL just to have a chance at passing a test designed to fail its takers. Welcome to the new American brand of Communism. This kind of garbage is coming to a State near you.
 

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How big is a FIB target?

That's easy breezy with a standard USPSA target and a CZ Ts2. Nobody said you couldnt bring an accurate pistol to the test.


While all of that is unconstitutional, if that's the only hurdle...........
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
How big is a FIB target?

That's easy breezy with a standard USPSA target and a CZ Ts2. Nobody said you couldnt bring an accurate pistol to the test.


While all of that is unconstitutional, if that's the only hurdle...........
If you’re over 40 you couldn’t do it with iron sights.
The target is a standard FBI target and you can use any pistol or revolver you like with iron sights. If you think it’s so easy, I’d be willing to place a wager on it, if you’d like. You have 5 shots, 1 shot two handed and the rest split between your strong and weak hand, easy breezy? I know not.
 

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If you’re over 40 you couldn’t do it with iron sights.
The target is a standard FBI target and you can use any pistol or revolver you like with iron sights. If you think it’s so easy, I’d be willing to place a wager on it, if you’d like. You have 5 shots, 1 shot two handed and the rest split between your strong and weak hand, easy breezy? I know not.
What's the time limit?

Is that target like a full size silhouette?
 

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Here in Gun World no permit needed ... we just use the 2nd Amendment.

But if you want a permit, it's as easy as 1) Take a class in a classroom ... 2) Go to the range and prove you know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of. 3) Send in paperwork showing you went to the class with a check. 4) Pick up permit at courthouse in a week or two ... maybe three if they're busy.

One time class was $60 ... first permit was $75 (for five years) ... renewal was $50.
 

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Living in NJ, the corrupt politician capital of the USA CC was never an issue, it was impossible to get but even the moronic Governor wasn’t about to take on SCOTUS and their recent ruling.
So I can get a CC Permit, maybe. The shooting requirements are absurd. You shoot 50 rounds with the sidearm you intend to carry, 1/3 of the shots two handed and the other 2/3 one handed between your weak and strong hands as follows,
25 Yards - 5 rounds, must hit target with at least 4 rounds
20 Yards - 5 rounds, must hit 4 of the 5
15 Yards - 15 rounds, must hit 12 of the 15
10 Yards - 15 “ “ “ “
7 Yards - 5 rounds must hit 4
5 Yards - “ “ “ “
This is meant to fail 80% of those that take the test. I have yet to hear of any other State in the country that has such requirements. I don’t care how able a shooter you are, try hitting the standard FBI target at 25 yards with 80% accuracy. Not very easy and once you pass 50 years of age it’s almost impossible. I had to buy a new Sig Sauer 365XL just to have a chance at passing a test designed to fail its takers. Welcome to the new American brand of Communism. This kind of garbage is coming to a State near you.
Can't even get one from another state and use it in NJ -
New Jersey
New Jersey does not honor concealed carry permits from other states. New Jersey is a “may issue” state that issues permits to both residents and non-residents. 24 states honor New Jersey concealed carry permits: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan (resident only), Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia
 

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Living in NJ, the corrupt politician capital of the USA CC was never an issue, it was impossible to get but even the moronic Governor wasn’t about to take on SCOTUS and their recent ruling.
So I can get a CC Permit, maybe. The shooting requirements are absurd. You shoot 50 rounds with the sidearm you intend to carry, 1/3 of the shots two handed and the other 2/3 one handed between your weak and strong hands as follows,
25 Yards - 5 rounds, must hit target with at least 4 rounds
20 Yards - 5 rounds, must hit 4 of the 5
15 Yards - 15 rounds, must hit 12 of the 15
10 Yards - 15 “ “ “ “
7 Yards - 5 rounds must hit 4
5 Yards - “ “ “ “
This is meant to fail 80% of those that take the test. I have yet to hear of any other State in the country that has such requirements. I don’t care how able a shooter you are, try hitting the standard FBI target at 25 yards with 80% accuracy. Not very easy and once you pass 50 years of age it’s almost impossible. I had to buy a new Sig Sauer 365XL just to have a chance at passing a test designed to fail its takers. Welcome to the new American brand of Communism. This kind of garbage is coming to a State near you.
This sounds similar to the old LFI-1 qualification test. Assuming a "hit" means a shot registering somewhere within the border of the target, it's not a hard test to pass. Assuming of course you have good vision and aren't trying to do it with a .22 NAA mini-revolver. I'm not defending New Jersey's law, but I do see the point of making sure a qualified CWP candidate possesses a decent firearm and knows how to shoot with it. Every weekend I see people at the local indoor range who I would not want to be anywhere near if they had to actually draw their firearm in self defense, as they make 7-yard targets look like they were blasted by a shotgun at 100 yards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This sounds similar to the old LFI-1 qualification test. Assuming a "hit" means a shot registering somewhere within the border of the target, it's not a hard test to pass. Assuming of course you have good vision and aren't trying to do it with a .22 NAA mini-revolver. I'm not defending New Jersey's law, but I do see the point of making sure a qualified CWP candidate possesses a decent firearm and knows how to shoot with it. Every weekend I see people at the local indoor range who I would not want to be anywhere near if they had to actually draw their firearm in self defense, as they make 7-yard targets look like they were blasted by a shotgun at 100 yards.
I understand what you're saying but one day you'll be my age, 69, and I've been shooting for 50 years so while I'm not the fastest guy at the range the one caveat I have always followed is, "Make every shot count"! Sounds simple but you know as I do, most people don't think that way.
 

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Living in NJ, the corrupt politician capital of the USA CC was never an issue, it was impossible to get but even the moronic Governor wasn’t about to take on SCOTUS and their recent ruling.
So I can get a CC Permit, maybe. The shooting requirements are absurd. You shoot 50 rounds with the sidearm you intend to carry, 1/3 of the shots two handed and the other 2/3 one handed between your weak and strong hands as follows,
25 Yards - 5 rounds, must hit target with at least 4 rounds
20 Yards - 5 rounds, must hit 4 of the 5
15 Yards - 15 rounds, must hit 12 of the 15
10 Yards - 15 “ “ “ “
7 Yards - 5 rounds must hit 4
5 Yards - “ “ “ “
This is meant to fail 80% of those that take the test. I have yet to hear of any other State in the country that has such requirements. I don’t care how able a shooter you are, try hitting the standard FBI target at 25 yards with 80% accuracy. Not very easy and once you pass 50 years of age it’s almost impossible. I had to buy a new Sig Sauer 365XL just to have a chance at passing a test designed to fail its takers. Welcome to the new American brand of Communism. This kind of garbage is coming to a State near you.

Is it the FBI "Q" target? FBI-Q Paper Target

Not bragging but I do it every year for my LEOSA re-qual. This year at 71 yoa I shot a 100% w/4" 1911. 25 yards (8 rounds) is supported though. Shoot often, practice at what you're weak at, you'll get better at it. It's not as hard as you think. Practice!!
 

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Living in NJ, the corrupt politician capital of the USA CC was never an issue, it was impossible to get but even the moronic Governor wasn’t about to take on SCOTUS and their recent ruling.
So I can get a CC Permit, maybe. The shooting requirements are absurd. You shoot 50 rounds with the sidearm you intend to carry, 1/3 of the shots two handed and the other 2/3 one handed between your weak and strong hands as follows,
25 Yards - 5 rounds, must hit target with at least 4 rounds
20 Yards - 5 rounds, must hit 4 of the 5
15 Yards - 15 rounds, must hit 12 of the 15
10 Yards - 15 “ “ “ “
7 Yards - 5 rounds must hit 4
5 Yards - “ “ “ “
This is meant to fail 80% of those that take the test. I have yet to hear of any other State in the country that has such requirements. I don’t care how able a shooter you are, try hitting the standard FBI target at 25 yards with 80% accuracy. Not very easy and once you pass 50 years of age it’s almost impossible. I had to buy a new Sig Sauer 365XL just to have a chance at passing a test designed to fail its takers. Welcome to the new American brand of Communism. This kind of garbage is coming to a State near you.
That doesnt sound too bad. Joe Biden said Republicans were trying to make black voters guess how many jellybeans are in a jar in order to vote.

It must be true because he said he'll always tell us the truth even if its bad news
 

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If you’re over 40 you couldn’t do it with iron sights.
The target is a standard FBI target and you can use any pistol or revolver you like with iron sights. If you think it’s so easy, I’d be willing to place a wager on it, if you’d like. You have 5 shots, 1 shot two handed and the rest split between your strong and weak hand, easy breezy? I know not.

I can do that. Not easy, but doable. I've been doing sheets of notebook paper at 25y. (43yo)

Maybe I can make it over to the ODR this Sunday.

1 normal, 2 lefty, 2 righty, 10 seconds?

Dont underestimate proper iron sights. Pick up and look across a Cz Ts2, or Shadow2, when you next see them at your LGS.
 

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If you’re over 40 you couldn’t do it with iron sights.
The target is a standard FBI target and you can use any pistol or revolver you like with iron sights. If you think it’s so easy, I’d be willing to place a wager on it, if you’d like. You have 5 shots, 1 shot two handed and the rest split between your strong and weak hand, easy breezy? I know not.
Off hand at 25 would definately be a challenge. Supported, not a problem, 8 rounds in 40 seconds, strong hand & support hand.
 

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Including the test described below I have found three alternatives. One of them require strong hand and weak hand at 5y. The last one only seem to require shooting supported.

It looks like a mess and I have not seen the time limit anywhere.

Weak hand at anything above 5y is bs and I would avoid it if you can choose another test.

It would be interesting to get more details about the test, I would like to try it.
 

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Wait so New Jersey is actually making people be able to shoot?

Like the police are required to do?

So why is it OK to require a police officer who carries a gun in public to qualify every year for proficiency but not someone else who carries a gun in public?
 

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Wait so New Jersey is actually making people be able to shoot?

Like the police are required to do?

So why is it OK to require a police officer who carries a gun in public to qualify every year for proficiency but not someone else who carries a gun in public?
three things:

First, to answer your question, the job of the policeman is to go looking for criminals to arrest / crimes to intervene in. His gun and its potential use is part of his job. For the citizen it is there merely to protect himself in the event he happens to be attacked. Two very different reasons for carrying, it's the same reason why police take evasive driving courses and learn how to run cars off the road , pit maneuver, etc. while a regular citizen just has to be able to drive without hitting someone. Yes unlike driving a motor vehicle on a public thoroughfare owning/carrying a firearm is a right, but the comparison is apt. The police police officer is using it as part of his job. The civilian is not.

Second, there is a difference between making sure someone can shoot safety and with basic competence, and structuring a test to be as difficult as possible. Does anyone think given NJ only even allowed permits because the supreme court ordered them to stop jerking people around that the goal of these tests is sincerely safe gun use?
Given the antigun attitude of the people in gov't in places like NJ (I used to live there I know) they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt based on their own track record, and to give it one must literally ignore their own words, actions, and history.

Third, there is a difference between an officer carrying a gun as his equipment as part of his job as an officer, and a citizen carrying as a constitutional right. And as much as, as a practical matter, I think all of us who own or carry guns should practice and be able to shoot competently, and the better we shoot the better, as a moral legal and constitutional matter I do not believe there should be any conditions on firearm ownership, or carry, for that matter, for private citizens (as illustrated in point one, government agents in uniform who use guns as part of their job is different. They are not carrying under the second amendment's rubric but as agents of the state whose job is law enforcement.). The Supreme Court apparently concurs, as did the founders. If you think there should be such conditions, call a constitutional convention.
 
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