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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone have any experience or heard of these? I saw a Norinco riot 12 ga. park. finish with ghost ring sights. Looked like a straight 870 copy. Dealer wanted $199 NIB. Whatcha think?
Thanks, TomP
 

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Yes Tom, I saw one a few mos. ago at a gun show.It looked pretty neat but for the money difference I think I'll stay with My Remm. 870.tom.

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[This message has been edited by deputy tom (edited 06-24-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hey Tom,
I agree, nothing beats the 870 for value and reliability, I've had a few over the years, wish I hadn't sold 'em. If the parts are interchangeable I'll go with the Norinco, If not then the 870. In my neck of the woods the 870 Home Defense model is $300 plus $150 for ghost rings. so more than double...
 

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Originally posted by TomP:
Hey Tom,
I agree, nothing beats the 870 for value and reliability, I've had a few over the years, wish I hadn't sold 'em. If the parts are interchangeable I'll go with the Norinco, If not then the 870. In my neck of the woods the 870 Home Defense model is $300 plus $150 for ghost rings. so more than double...
Tom, since you are looking at the Home Defense model, I assume you want it for just that purpose. If this is correct, then why the ghost rings? I have found that a cylinder bore 18 1/2 barrel with bead sights has served me well for many years of LE work. I have never had to use one on the streets but I have employed it hundreds of times at the range in various scenarios and it’s just about perfect in my opinion.

We have some with rifle sights. I have managed to snag them more than once on my clothes; and in one case when pulling it from the vehicle mount I managed to gash the palm of my hand to the tune of 10 sutures. I know that ghost rings have no sharp edges but I think they and rifle sights are really unnecessary in a short-range defensive shotgun.

Why spend the extra money one something you really don’t need? Buy an 870, support an American Company and American Workers, and let the Chinese keep their junk.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hey Patrickl,
Why the ghost rings you ask?
Cause they LOOK cool!


I seem to aquire a faster sight picture with the GR's, and if I go that route, I'll put some ghost glow on the front post--voila, night sites for my HD gun. The norinco also holds two more in the mag. "Let the Chinese keep their junk." Yeah, I probably should. LOL TomP
 

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It's made in China, that's enough reason not to buy it! Besides being low quality, it is so cheap because all they have to pay the factory help is NOT put a 9mm Mak. in the back of the head.

Sorry, but I'm pretty militant about the Chinese thing. They hate us, they are working against us constantly. Gun people, the most freedom-minded in the USA, should be the last to support this outfit that allows no freedom to its own people.
 

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hey, Ned, here's a novel idea for you to try once you get off your self-righteous crusade, TRY IT BEFORE SPOUTING B.S. ALL OVER THE PLACE. when was the last time emotion and politics had anything to do with the quality of a gun?!

here is my exp with the gun: mine may not be the one you are looking at, it's from CDNN, it's as good as the mossbergs, but I really like the bottom ejection feature, $199 would be a little too much if we are looking at the same gun.
 

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I have to agree with Ned. I see no moral difference in buying a firearm from China today than buying one from Germany in 1940.

At least buying the gun from Germany in 1940 would have gotten you a high quality firearm. Buying a gun from China today gets you a gun of questionable quality and helps to support a deplorable government. Remember, Norinco is a government owned company, not private.

I realize that it is almost impossible to not buy something that is made in China anymore, but I try my best!
 

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HS, that's OK if you don't agree with my China position. I may even be going about it wrong, maybe refusing Chinese products does more harm than good to the Chinese people, and in effecting change there. Not really sure on that, but I still don't care for their products based on quality. I have seen a few of the Chinese knock-offs of US shotguns and they just didn't show a level of quality that would make me want to have them. The Winchester '97 copy was probably the best-- but still pretty rough. I'd much rather have an old, banged-up and well-used Ithaca or Remington than a shiny new Chinese copy of same-- not based on emotions or politics, based on quality.

I will defend my politics, though. At what point would it be right not to buy Chinese? If they were selling weapons of mass destruction to tyrants in unstable regions? Being done. If they were buying influence in our political system? They're there.If they were using prisoners of conscience, political prisoner, as free labor? Lots of reports that they are doing so. If they were rounding up and arresting religious groups they don't approve of? Using tanks on protesters? Surely most Americans would not buy Chinese products, no matter how inexensive, if they were using captured Americans as free slave labor-- I am just giving the Chinese people the same regard.

Chinese people are people just like us, they deserve the same freedoms and rights, and I simply feel that any people anywhere that are abused so by their government deserve whatever small help I can offer.

I'm sure I have some Chinese products around here, once in a while something slips through. I will admit to having bought a ton of Chinese ammo, but only after they cut off imports of it-- I rationalized that buying it could not contribute to a "pull" for more. It's not bad stuff, either.
 

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FWIW I am a Chinese American (5th gen) and I would not even consider a Norinco. Why why why? I just saw a b-yoo-tiful Rem 870 Express WITH an extened mag and bead sites for $316 at my local dealer.
 

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I hate to burst everyone's pro-America bubble, but more things than you can guess are coming out of China these days. A LOT of power tools and accessories, a LOT of food products, a LOT of machine tools, a LOT of parts for things labeled "Made in U.S.A." and a LOT of your clothes. They are being imported by AMERICAN companies who are the ones in bed with the Chinese in the first place so those American companies can turn a huge profit. That's why your Nike's come from Vietnam. It's not the Chinese's or Vietnamese's fault that American companies have no scruples. They're just trying to turn a buck like everyone else. I have a Norinco 9mm and it works great for me and it was all I could afford at the time. It replaced an American-made H&R .22 revolver that fell apart after less than 200 rounds.

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
No Horizon, this one has the side ejection and same bolt design as the M870...

Here's another wrinkle to this debate: Right now I will not buy another new Remington product because of their lockable safety. They did this one themselves just to be "politically correct". No one twisted their arm to put this device on, and to make matters worse the damn think will lock the safety on if the safety head is turned without the keys. Hard to describe, suffices to say the safety can come on when you don't want it to. Definitely not something I'm looking for in a defensive shotgun.

So to hell with ya, Big Green. In protest, I'm considering a knock-off from Big Red.
(or, [gasp!], a Mossberg 590A1.)

TomP
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Oops forgot, my new CRAFTSMAN cordless drill was made in China. Nice piece though.




[This message has been edited by TomP (edited 06-24-2001).]
 

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eputy tom
Originally posted by TomP:
No Horizon, this one has the side ejection and same bolt design as the M870...

So to hell with ya, Big Green. In protest, I'm considering a knock-off from Big Red.
(or, [gasp!], a Mossberg 590A1.)

Mossberg makes a good quality shotgun and I've had quite a few of them in the past.Probably better quality that Norinco and on par with Remm. cheap version.tom.

TomP
 

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Well, I still think you will do yourself better by buying a used Rem 870 then...
As far as chinese products...have any of you tried to build a PC yourself lately and NOT use all chinese components. 100% impossible. Even the memory is from China!
 

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No doubt, a lot of Chinese stuff is not labeled as such due to the above-mentioned scruples (lack thereof) in many American businesses. I think some of them would deal in products made of human flesh and bone if they could turn a bigger profit.

The new Remington safety-- yes, it sure seems sometimes like our own firearms industry is shooting itself in the foot on runaway full-auto, doesn't it! I guess that's their lawyers responding to the anti lawyers. I kinda feel sorry for the litigation pinch they're feeling. I hope the country can get itself out of this tailspin of "I'm not responsible for my own actions".
 

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Originally posted by Ned Christiansen:
If they were selling weapons of mass destruction to tyrants in unstable regions? Being done.

And USA doesn't do same thing in other parts of the world?

If they were buying influence in our political system? They're there.

And USA doesn't do same thing in other parts of the world?

If they were using prisoners of conscience, political prisoner, as free labor? Lots of reports that they are doing so.

How much does our states pay our prisoners for making license plates?

If they were rounding up and arresting religious groups they don't approve of? Using tanks on protesters?

Did you forget Waco?

Surely most Americans would not buy Chinese products, no matter how inexensive,

Think again. Why did you buy the computer that you have? Price have anything to do with it? Ever look inside the computer? Take a look to see how many parts are NOT made in China.

Do you think Chinese government would use prisoners to make guns? Do you think we would be doing common Chinese people a favor by putting them out of work?




[This message has been edited by rug357 (edited 06-28-2001).]
 

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In all fairness, it should be pointed out that there's China, and then there's CHINA.

A lot of the "Chinese" goods you're referring to actually come out of Taiwan — a progressive, pro-democracy nation unto itself (and a constant thorn in the side of communist China, BTW). There's very little prison slave labor going on in Taiwan right now...

Of course, red China is another beast entirely. Just today, the newspapers carried a story about a doctor who admitted to removing organs from freshly-executed prisoners (and in one case, a prisoner who was still alive at the time). Prisoner slave labor is undoubtedly alive and well on the China mainland.
 

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I know there must be some Chinese components in my computer-- no, I didn't open it up before I bought it.

I know our (US Gov) nose is not clean. I sure as hell have not forgotten Waco! I spend a good deal of time writing my people in Washington, and letters to editors, trying to keep our country from becoming too much like China (no crap-- a LOT of time).

Taiwanese products, I have no prob with-- in fact I think of it as an anti-China purchase!

I will try to minimize my self-righteous crusade on the matter in the future-- or at least contain it to the Politics forum :) .... but that's not a promise!
 

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Ned C.

Don't stop expressing your views. Thats the one of the greatness of this country (along with 2nd Amend.)... your freedom to say what you want. I'm going to express my view on this and other issues as I see fit and will listen to yours and others views. We both have the right to expresss them and defend them.

Perhapse by listening to each other and being open minded we can come to some kind of agreement.

God, this country is GREAT!
 
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