[coyotebuster]

On most Sunday mornings my wife and I stop for breakfast or lunch at a nearby national chain restaurant. Most of the time we are seated where I can see the patrons as they file in and out of the dining area. Over time, I began to notice that a fair number of patrons there are carrying firearms. Most are kind of concealed, but I also see a few being carried openly. This past Sunday, we'd just been seated when I noticed the young guy at the table to my left was carrying a government model 1911 in a kydex holster. He had removed his jacket leaving his holstered pistol openly displayed for all to see. The pistol showed some honest wear to the finish I could see, but what bothered me the most was that he was carrying his 1911 with the hammer down. Whether on an empty chamber or not, I couldn't tell. I was very concerned for this young man and his wife, and really wanted to get him aside and tell him that if he's going to carry his 1911, that he should carry it correctly. Cocked and locked. I also noted a tatoo on his shoulder that appeared to depict a military unit. I concluded that he was ex- military, and if issued a 1911, had possibly been trained to carry it as he was. I also spotted another young man who's holster was peeking from under his untucked T-shirt, and another gent in his 70's or so, with an obvious buldge under his pink untucked dress shirt. So, including me, there were at least four concealed carriers in the restaurant at the same time. Life is good.

 

[2aCrisis]

On most Sunday mornings my wife and I stop for breakfast or lunch at a nearby national chain restaurant. Most of the time we are seated where I can see the patrons as they file in and out of the dining area. Over time, I began to notice that a fair number of patrons there are carrying firearms. Most are kind of concealed, but I also see a few being carried openly. This past Sunday, we'd just been seated when I noticed the young guy at the table to my left was carrying a government model 1911 in a kydex holster. He had removed his jacket leaving his holstered pistol openly displayed for all to see. The pistol showed some honest wear to the finish I could see, but what bothered me the most was that he was carrying his 1911 with the hammer down. Whether on an empty chamber or not, I couldn't tell. I was very concerned for this young man and his wife, and really wanted to get him aside and tell him that if he's going to carry his 1911, that he should carry it correctly. Cocked and locked. I also noted a tatoo on his shoulder that appeared to depict a military unit. I concluded that he was ex- military, and if issued a 1911, had possibly been trained to carry it as he was. I also spotted another young man who's holster was peeking from under his untucked T-shirt, and another gent in his 70's or so, with an obvious buldge under his pink untucked dress shirt. So, including me, there were at least four concealed carriers in the restaurant at the same time. Life is good.

and nobody died... ...

 

[longarm]

 

[rexm]

I won't open carry, I don't want to be the first victim. It's extremely rare my holster will briefly peek out but there are times no matter how I sit someone like us could tell the butt has that slight poke in my shirt. Your everyday Joe or sockermom is oblivious though.

 

[Jocko1911]

I was very concerned for this young man and his wife, and really wanted to get him aside and tell him that if he's going to carry his 1911, that he should carry it correctly. Cocked and locked.

Just my two cents here…

Correctly in this scenario is not an all inclusive term; in other words, correct for you (and me, and most) is not necessarily correct for all. Carriers should carry in the condition in which they are most comfortable doing so.

I have seen the same thing with other 1911 carriers. Rather than tell them they are not carrying in the “correct” condition, if I have the opportunity to strike up conversation, first I ask them about their pistol, then I ask if they’ve heard of Jeff Cooper and his conditions of carry. That’s usually (not always) when I get the deer in the headlights look.

 

[cadillacmike]

And it's not illegal or stupid to carry in condition 3 (Israeli method) either.

 

[Swift1]

I actually saw this happen years ago in a Cop / Martial Arts bar in the Bronx. Good fun!

 

[rexm]

I've known some old timers that carried 1911s for decades and most were retired LE that carried on 1/2 cock. Alot are deceased now so ....dammit that mean I'm old now. Condition 1 for me.

 

[Starship Enterpris]

I've always loved that scene. Glock ripped it off for one of their commercials.

 

[longarm]

There was a similar scene in one of the Discworld books, where the chumps hit the Guards bar - and the guards bolt the door behind them... ;-)

 

[Earth Pig]

Condition 1 for my beloved M1911a1 and the Browning Hi-Power.

 

[USMM guy]

As for me, I just try to mind my own business. If someone wants to carry in condition three that is on them, at least they are carrying and might be good to have there if something bad happens. Just sayin.

 

[Boge]

As for me, I just try to mind my own business. If someone wants to carry in condition three that is on them, at least they are carrying and might be good to have there if something bad happens. Just sayin.

Yep. Doesn't anyone read a newspaper in a diner anymore?

 

[YVK]

And it's not illegal or stupid to carry in condition 3 (Israeli method) either.

I think the general consensus that one half of this sentence is correct.
I am not judging or anything, only an ass would do something like. Just making a statement about general consensus.

 

[2Malamutes]

what bothered me the most was that he was carrying his 1911 with the hammer down. Whether on an empty chamber or not, I couldn't tell. I was very concerned for this young man and his wife,

Correctly in this scenario is not an all inclusive term; in other words, correct for you (and me, and most) is not necessarily correct for all. Carriers should carry in the condition in which they are most comfortable doing so.

Very concerned for the man and his wife? That seems a bit far for me. I doubt it’s much of a secret that the average age of frequent responders here ain’t young. I’d bet a seasoned current soldier or one just out, trained on condition 3, would get his first shot on target faster than you. I don’t mean that pejoratively, he’d be faster than me too, so I wouldn’t be concerned about what condition he was carrying. This is too close to those holier than thou concealed vs. open carry threads. If everyone would just stop making sure that we know their position on the soapbox is “right”, we’d all have a better day🤷‍♂️

 

[cadillacmike]

Very concerned for the man and his wife? That seems a bit far for me. I doubt it’s much of a secret that the average age of frequent responders here ain’t young. I’d bet a seasoned current soldier or one just out, trained on condition 3, would get his first shot on target faster than you. I don’t mean that pejoratively, he’d be faster than me too, so I wouldn’t be concerned about what condition he was carrying. This is too close to those holier than thou concealed vs. open carry threads. If everyone would just stop making sure that we know their position on the soapbox is “right”, we’d all have a better day🤷‍♂️

@YVK - take note.

 

[cadillacmike]

I think the general consensus that one half of this sentence is correct.
I am not judging or anything, only an ass would do something like. Just making a statement about general consensus.

The ENTIRE sentence is correct.

 

[Old Dog]

Oh, good Lord. Gun guys are some of the most critical people on the planet. In the late eighties, early nineties, this is how the USMC trained us -- the "Israeli carry," Condition 3, racking the slide overhand on the drawstroke. I had to carry this way as an MP for a few years. It's not a big deal. Hopefully, anyone that carries this way understands the self-imposed limitations.

If you've got both hands available, and are practiced with this method, it's all good.

But yeah, if your left (or non-dominant) hand is outta action, you're SOL.

So we can detect others who are (attempting to) carry concealed but they either have tells or are printing. Good situational awareness, but nothing to obsess over.

Us knowledgeable folks want to push our knowledge on everyone else but routinely fail to understand that there are many that carry 1911s and don't feel comfortable with cocked and locked carryor that some folks are not as concerned about "printing" or inadvertent display of a concealed weapon as we might be. But rather than educate them, we post on an internet forum.

 

[Gearheadesw]

Some serious self righteous people posting in here. Humility is a virtue. What’s good for you, might suck for someone else. Get on with your life, not someone else’s.
Remember we’re in the land of freedom, everyone has the same rights.
Nothing wrong with condition 3, if your trained for it. There’s a reason Israeli guns are good. They have to use them all the time…..

 

[Old Fart]

.... but what bothered me the most was that he was carrying his 1911 with the hammer down. Whether on an empty chamber or not, I couldn't tell. I was very concerned for this young man and his wife, and really wanted to get him aside and tell him that if he's going to carry his 1911, that he should carry it correctly. Cocked and locked. I also noted a tatoo on his shoulder that appeared to depict a military unit. I concluded that he was ex- military, and if issued a 1911, had possibly been trained to carry it as he was..

If he was ex-mil, I wouldn't worry too much about how he carried it, he knew how to use it.

Robert Heinlein once said, "An armed society is a polite society".

I especially liked the nickel .44M stuck in the guy's ear near the end of that clip.