[lynn.circle]

To start with I didn't tell anyone anything.. Secondly I am entitled to my opinion, and that opinion is that the generally accepted way to carry a 1911 pistol is in condition 1 PERIOD.. I posted this little story in a light hearted way, trying to convey that I was happy to see so many individuals exercising their 2nd amendment rights on a pleasant Sunday morning. Yes, it's none of my business how that young man carries his 1911, so I didn't bother to share my opinion with him. Not my job to train him. I was just happy to see that he had the wisdom to choose the finest fighting handgun ever invented. I DO feel that open carry is unwise, and carrying with a hammer down on an empty, or even loaded chamber just invites disaster, as that's just one more thing to go wrong as you attempt to run a slide, or thumb a hammer in an emergency. Again, MY OPINION.. In the event he ever had to defend himself or his wife, I'd hate to see him dying on the ground with a failed to chamber round jammed in his gun. But yeah that's his business, not mine, hell I'm retired.
I carried a 1911 pistol daily, in harms way for over twenty five years. I was carrying a 1911, and before that, a revolver in a duty holster, most likely before many of you here were even born. I have trained extensively with firearms for over forty years, so yes I do have a bit of expertise on the subject. I've screwed the business end of a combat magnum into the ear of a guy reaching for a gun he intended to shoot me with. I've talked nut cases holding guns to their heads into putting the gun down and taking a ride to the mental hospital, and seen people shot in the back of the head so a puke can see what its like to kill someone. Then I've seen that puke all the way to the lethal injection table. I've been pulled out of a burning squad car, and woke up the next day in a hospital after crashing while responding to a serious accident, because an idiot purposely failed to yield to an emergency vehicle, so that's who I am.. So there ya go, key board warrior, I won't comment any further.

I agree. The only time in my life where I ever had a negligent discharge was when I was trying to lower the hammer on a 1911 so I could carry in Condition 2. I had done it successfully many times before, but this time my finger slipped. Luckily, the muzzle WAS pointed in a safe direction so the only casualty was a hole in my bed mattress which I slept on for many years more. But never again. Now I carry only in Condition 1!

 

[cadillacmike]

To start with I didn't tell anyone anything.. Secondly I am entitled to my opinion, and that opinion is that the generally accepted way to carry a 1911 pistol is in condition 1 PERIOD..

Speak for yourself, not everyone else, lest you be another one proving Abe Lincoln was right when...

 

[cadillacmike]

Yeah, even a sub second AWIB draw was probably going to still result in him getting shot. Sad day all around there.

As to the OP. I’m always on the lookout for other CCW users but, unless I knew them, I certainly wouldn’t say a darned thing about their style or choices, I have no idea about their training or preferences.

I have noted, that those I do manage to spot are always either the “I don’t really care” 3-330 OWB with a fair size gun or the AIWB untucked guys who don’t seem to realize what looks good standing still from the front doesn’t translate to reaching for groceries, or walking in the wind or sitting down.

Then again maybe they don’t care either.

Isn't it AIWB draw??

 

[M60 teamleader '65]

To start with I didn't tell anyone anything.. Secondly I am entitled to my opinion, and that opinion is that the generally accepted way to carry a 1911 pistol is in condition 1 PERIOD.. I posted this little story in a light hearted way, trying to convey that I was happy to see so many individuals exercising their 2nd amendment rights on a pleasant Sunday morning. Yes, it's none of my business how that young man carries his 1911, so I didn't bother to share my opinion with him. Not my job to train him. I was just happy to see that he had the wisdom to choose the finest fighting handgun ever invented. I DO feel that open carry is unwise, and carrying with a hammer down on an empty, or even loaded chamber just invites disaster, as that's just one more thing to go wrong as you attempt to run a slide, or thumb a hammer in an emergency. Again, MY OPINION.. In the event he ever had to defend himself or his wife, I'd hate to see him dying on the ground with a failed to chamber round jammed in his gun. But yeah that's his business, not mine, hell I'm retired.
I carried a 1911 pistol daily, in harms way for over twenty five years. I was carrying a 1911, and before that, a revolver in a duty holster, most likely before many of you here were even born. I have trained extensively with firearms for over forty years, so yes I do have a bit of expertise on the subject. I've screwed the business end of a combat magnum into the ear of a guy reaching for a gun he intended to shoot me with. I've talked nut cases holding guns to their heads into putting the gun down and taking a ride to the mental hospital, and seen people shot in the back of the head so a puke can see what its like to kill someone. Then I've seen that puke all the way to the lethal injection table. I've been pulled out of a burning squad car, and woke up the next day in a hospital after crashing while responding to a serious accident, because an idiot purposely failed to yield to an emergency vehicle, so that's who I am.. So there ya go, key board warrior, I won't comment any further.

WOW ! I am glad to finally find a person that isn't afraid of expressing his opinion . Doing exactly that got me Banned [ no warning either ! Bless you Sir for Your 'Opinion' & your Background ! Being online and in forums , one always gets trashed sooner or later . Yours in camaraderie . M60 Gunner👍💪

 

[JRPM]

Why do we have training at all? Why do we have the four RULES of gun safety? After all, everyone should be able to handle their gun how they think best, without others having the temerity to suggest that there is a better way.

Hint: The above paragraph is sarcasm.

I'm on several topical non-gun forums, where people discuss the topic of the forum. Most people post problems & helpful comments, & there is sometimes disagreement. No one ever says, "He has the right to do what he's doing, you do you." Those forums are just not that kind of place.

Not here. Some are so focused on their rights that they seem to think that every criticism is an affront to someone's freedom. What about learning? What about helping your fellow man?

Some people are here to learn, some are here to help, & some are here to puff up themselves, as you noted.

By the way, I am also on several other gun forums, & don't see much of this on those other forums. I can't see why. [Again, that last sentence is sarcasm. I know pretty much why, but I ain't saying!]

I'm old enough to remember ol' Joe B, but hard as I try, I can't remember a Constitutional Right protecting me from being offended...

 

[jr24]

Isn't it AIWB draw??

certainly a mistype on my part

 

[Bogeyman]

So here's my question...for everyone,
If the actual consensus is that how a person chooses to carry their firearm is up to the individual, why do we constantly see this same conversation come up over and over and over?
Just asking...

 

[tex ohfive]

Long story short....

I once work with a 'detective' (I use that term purty loosely concerning this guy)
He absolutely hate the sight of my cocked & locked 1911, he bitch'd and complained
incessantly to me and everyone that was in ear-shot.

So, instead of listening to his daily rants...
I switched to my Para 7.45 LDA cocked & locked with the hammer down.

///

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone is NOT entitled to make you listen to it!

If its someone I don't like to begin with, I'm willing to put up with VERY little crap from them.

😒

 

[SCCWP]

I always observe people in any establishment as it’s my habit from a career in LE. I don’t carry how another person chooses to carry his gun. My wife told me the other day telling me she saw a guy I would get along with great. He was open carrying in a nice leather holster and had on a cowboy hat and boots. (The way I carry and dress every day). I agreed that we’d probably get along fine.

 

[Ronn]

What condition would this be, round in the chamber, hammer down but a click back, manual safety off.

 

[Cosmopolitan]

I don't think tattoo means former military, but that being said, there are plenty of people who were in the military that seemed to learn nothing while there.

It's hard to say why the person was carrying with the hammer down. Maybe he was frantic getting kids dressed and forgot to chamber a round. Who knows?

I wouldn't personally carry a 1911 with the hammer down. As far as intended by Browning, that doesn't really matter. Over a 100 years carrying cocked and locked and shooting sports as cocked and locked would have been found to be obviously wrong if it was.

Browning also created a single action (BHP) with a magazine disconnect after the 1911. Are we supposed to believe that all 1911s should have a magazine disconnect added?

I have to say it can be entertaining spotting those carrying. I find grocery stores to be a great place for that activity. In my area, you'll probably lose count on a busy day.

The original Browning design for the BHP did not have a magazine disconnect. Browning died when the design was not even half done, and was finished by Dieudonne Saive who worked with him from the beginning. The Magazine disconnect was required by the French Military who was testing the firearm for possible use by their forces. There are pros and cons to having one.

 

[Cosmopolitan]

What condition would this be, round in the chamber, hammer down but a click back, manual safety off.

i would think that is condition 2

 

[edmedlin13]

The short-lived 9mm Remington R51 pistols were single-action and always cocked (hammer not exposed), and relied ONLY on a grip safety. The production modes suffered from reliability issues, but I never heard/read about unintended discharges. In three different law enforcement (using the term broadly) positions I carried single action pisols, at least part of the time-- a 1911, a BPH, and then a 1911, again. Always carried in Condition One, and time and again had old-timers with police or military experience tell me I should carry them hammer-down, on and empty chamber, and then rack the slide when I drew. Being self-deprecating and marginally diplomatic, rather than informing them they were stupid and/or ignorant, I thanked them for their advice, then claimed to be too slow and poorly coordinated to pull off what they proposed. In terms of avoiding unintended discharges, I still believe a 1911 and other single-action pistols with thumb and/or grip safety are second only to revolvers.

 

[Tenx100s]

I've known some old timers that carried 1911s for decades and most were retired LE that carried on 1/2 cock. Alot are deceased now so ....dammit that mean I'm old now. Condition 1 for me.

I too remember when 1/2 cock carry was in vogue. Those that trained with it seemed to be rather fast following a draw process much like the quick draw artists and their single action revolvers. The trouble was/is that due to its size the hammer fully down was significantly more difficult to reliably engage and the 1/2 cock position presented the hammer out a bit more from the frame. However, that notch was not meant to be a staging position. It was there as a hammer safety catch if it "escaped" the sear without the grip disengaged.
Recently, I've noticed a couple of manufacturers/builders recommending that the 1/2 cock notch not be used for carry.

Jeff Cooper had quite an influence on me so it is Condition 1 for me too.

 

[Tenx100s]

We have a young ex-Marine/(always a Marine) in our county shooting club. He carries his 1911 chamber empty and hammer down. However, he is amazingly quick, and can draw and rack the slide as the gun is coming up, and fire in about a nano-second. He was a Marine sniper and is also a tremendous pistol shooter. You wouldn't want to get into a gunfight with that young man.

This old Marine, at one Stateside command, was required to carry with an empty gun. The magazine was loaded but separate from the pistol. I never did know what precipitated that directive, but no one liked it.
I recall seeing a demo by a MP of a one-handed draw from the Israeli carry. He drew his 1911 part way from the holster then turned his wrist towards his hip and pressing the sight into the leather, pushed the gun back down into the holster to chamber a round and completed his draw. Not as fast as having both hands working together but wow, still impressive at how it worked.

 

[Jpchiesa]

The R Lee Ermy' Glock ad was awesome and I hate Glock!

 

[Jpchiesa]

Just because one person can do it well doesn't justify that it should be used by everyone like the Israelis decided to do. Not everyone has his dexterity? To use the old comeback... "Carrying a 1911 in condition 3 is like saying you won't snap on your seatbelt until just before an accident". What happens if in the real world that one or both hands are occupied?Here's an actual incident that exemplifies this. I was dealing with not 1 but 4 knuckleheads that were accosting a young woman. After letting the guys know fun time was over, one of the idiots turns and comes at me like he's hulk and it's bashing time. I whip out my trusty can of pepper foam and hose him down with my weak hand. In my peripheral vision I saw that one of his homies was coming at me full speed with a 9 iron. He was about 10 yards away when I noticed. Using the Marine's method would have meant having to drop the can of spray, which now could have been picked up by one of the other knuckleheads and turned against me, or the Marine could use a "slide on belt rack" which under stress could produce an unwanted A.D. into fleshy parts of his body! For years Israelis used the "condition 3 speed load" and over time they realized that the 1911 is the safest pistol in existence in condition 1. Their solution? Drilling into every citizen soldier carrying a 1911 to carry cocked and locked and "Keep their stink finger off of the trigger until you have to shoot". As fast as that Marine might have been, he will be faster drawing in condition 1 and that may mean the difference between drawing and having to shoot versus drawing and stopping the attack with no one getting shot!

 

[Jpchiesa]

I think the average person that doesn't carry doesn't think to look for anyone printing a concealed weapon. I used to try to completely conceal my gun when I first started carrying many years ago, but don't really worry about print as much now. Especially living in GA where it's only half snowflakes.

Thread drift - alcohol and carrying. In GA, it is perfectly legal to carry in a bar or restaurant and consume alcohol. It is illegal to discharge a firearm under the influence. I feel like GA got the law correct. While guns and alcohol don't mix, I don't feel anyone should give up their right to defend themselves because they're consuming alcohol. If I have to defend myself and my condition causes me to miss my target and I hit an innocent bystander, is the liability any different that if I was stone sober and a bad shot? Most encounters would be a few feet max. I don't worry about people carrying a gun and drinking thinking they will start a fight and pull a gun. That type of person would most likely be carrying illegal anyway.

Thanks for the correction. I find that piece of Ga legislation refreshing in its demonstration of critical thinking. There are many bars I've been to that had good food, I don't drink, and yet was restricted from carrying. In some states, even owners and employees were restricted even though they weren't partaking.

 

[Tenx100s]

Just because one person can do it well doesn't justify that it should be used by everyone like the Israelis decided to do. Not everyone has his dexterity? To use the old comeback... "Carrying a 1911 in condition 3 is like saying you won't snap on your seatbelt until just before an accident". What happens if in the real world that one or both hands are occupied?Here's an actual incident that exemplifies this. I was dealing with not 1 but 4 knuckleheads that were accosting a young woman. After letting the guys know fun time was over, one of the idiots turns and comes at me like he's hulk and it's bashing time. I whip out my trusty can of pepper foam and hose him down with my weak hand. In my peripheral vision I saw that one of his homies was coming at me full speed with a 9 iron. He was about 10 yards away when I noticed. Using the Marine's method would have meant having to drop the can of spray, which now could have been picked up by one of the other knuckleheads and turned against me, or the Marine could use a "slide on belt rack" which under stress could produce an unwanted A.D. into fleshy parts of his body! For years Israelis used the "condition 3 speed load" and over time they realized that the 1911 is the safest pistol in existence in condition 1. Their solution? Drilling into every citizen soldier carrying a 1911 to carry cocked and locked and "Keep their stink finger off of the trigger until you have to shoot". As fast as that Marine might have been, he will be faster drawing in condition 1 and that may mean the difference between drawing and having to shoot versus drawing and stopping the attack with no one getting shot!

I don't know if you are replying to my posts above but if so let me clarify. I am not advocating for any carry method. I carry in condition 1 and have for a long time but that does not mean I have any less respect for a person who figures out how to maximize their abilities under the limitations imposed upon them.
About five years ago I met a former SEAL who still carried and trained, Israeli method. I never saw him shoot and he spoke little of his service. It wasn't until I introduced my youngest son, a Marine, to him that I learned he had been wounded three times in 8 years.

 

[Gator22]

These threads always the same. Bottom line is you can't fix stupid, don't try to educate and just leave people alone.