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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have decided to get a Kimber as my first 1911. That's sort of a settled issue.

At first I was looking to get a Compact CDP (4" barrel). What a beauty too!!!

BUT my wife says she want laser grips (seriously)....and they are black rubber.

That means of course I would have to take those pretty rosewood grips off....Perhaps I should just get the Compact stainless or Compact aluminum/stainless and save about $250.

What do you think?

For those who think its best to get regular Compact....what is better....stainless or aluminum/stainless?

Thanks in advance.

Chris
 

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Hello Chris, I don't remember if you said if this was for "home defense" or not, but I'm guessing if your wanting the laser grips, that it might be. How about something like the Holosight? I think the laser pretty much gives away your direction plus if it is a "late night affair" it's going to be dark and I would really rather "see" my opponent. I keep a "sure fire" tactical light next to my Kimber on the nightstand. The model 6Z is perfect for this situation. One blast to the "opponents" shadowy figure and they are pretty much going to be blinded in my opinion. You can read about them if your not familiar with them on their web site. I don't want to shoot the wrong person, and before someone says, "well, if they are in your house", we just went through a case not to far from my city where the police entered the wrong house late at night and one of them got shot, now they are prosecuting. I don't want to shoot an "errant friendly", I also don't want to be shot by one

I'm sure everyone will have an idea about this, this is just my opinion so please everyone don't blast me as I am still open to other options. If the laser is just for shooting, then I'm sure it's ok, but I'd still go for the Holosight.
Regards SonnyD
 

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Teach her to use the sights. In a stressful incounter, she will be able to find her hands and therefore the tritium sights, but finding a tiny red dot somewhere out there may be alot tougher. Very few people use lasers and I believe IMHO this is why.

Besides, why replace nice looking grips?!
 

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Frankly Chris, a laser on a pistol is a useless toy. That said, you wouldn't go wrong with the Compact Aluminum Stainless.

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A man with a watch knows what time it is; a man with two watches isn't so sure
 

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Personally, I have no interest in laser sights and no experience with them so I'll not comment about that part of your question. I'll take the last one.

I have the steel-framed Compact. It is the heaviest gun I own but I don't mind carrying it. In fact, I'd rather carry it than anything else. I went that direction for durability. I want a gun I can shoot and shoot without having to worry about frame wear over a lenghty lifetime. I'm sure there are satisfied aluminum users too.

Oh, by the way, I have the pretty rosewood grips. Sure would be a shame to give them up for rubber, IMHO.

Randy
 

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The simple answer is to buy another gun for your wife too :)

A question though, why the compact instead of the Pro CDP?
You could get the full size gun, and get the new laser max? Totally internal and you'd keep your grips.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Originally posted by RikWriter:
Frankly Chris, a laser on a pistol is a useless toy. That said, you wouldn't go wrong with the Compact Aluminum Stainless.


Do you mean the "regular" compact aluminum/stainless?

The CDP is aluminum and stainless....which leads me to another question I suppose.

How does the aluminum frame wear? And does it really make the gun that much lighter?

Oh yeah...almost forgot. The CDP's have frontstrap checkering....the Compact alum/ss does not. Does this really make that much of a difference to anyone out there?

Disclosure: The two primary purposes of the gun would be for home defense as well as conceal on hikes, etc. Plus...the joy of just going out to shoot at times!!!

Thanks again.

Chris


[This message has been edited by C Alan (edited 06-18-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Originally posted by FirearmsPlus.FL:
The simple answer is to buy another gun for your wife too :)

A question though, why the compact instead of the Pro CDP?
You could get the full size gun, and get the new laser max? Totally internal and you'd keep your grips.
I wanted to go with Compact size for conceal purposes.

I liked the LaserMax internal....but I did not understand why it would not fit the Compact but it would the Pro. Same size frame I thought....Pro just has a grip that is .400 inches longer. ...same size barrel of 4". Or am I mistaken?

Chris
 

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I agree with FirearmsPlus...if your wife wants Laser sights, buy her a different one.
What were you going to do, hand it back and forth??
I have had quite a bit of experience with the lasersights, they really are overrated, they look really cool in the movies and they are neat for a few minutes, but nobody (not even S.W.A.T.) really uses them, you need to be proficient with your sights. What if her gun was broken, or being modified, and she needed to use another one in a crisis?
Also, I would hate to stake my life on your battery not being dead at the wrong moment.
They're just not a good idea on your primary defense gun. If you put them on another one that you just use for fun, that's a different story.
My experience has also been that they tend to wander a bit on guns with heavier recoil, (really bad with the cheaper sights) though I'm sure there are ones that don't.
The frontstrap checkering is really nice on the aluminum framed guns and the steel framed if you can afford it, it really improves grip (and looks cool!). The next best thing as far as grip goes would be the finger groove grips.
I have one of each, and I can't decide which one I like the best, the rosewood is really good looking, but on my ulta compact, the finger groove rubber really keeps the gun under control. If you're going with a compact you may consider the hogue or Pachmayr rubber grips. On the full size, I prefer the rosewood and the checkering.
 

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My dear compact CDP, how do I love thee. Let me count the ways. Ambi saftey, front strap checkering, tritium night sights, Rosewood grips. Go with the CDP. I love mine and am thinking about getting the ultra for my back up!
That would be so nice.

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Have you hugged your 1911 today?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
OK...

I guess I'll have to talk my wife out of the laser grips...

I will be going with my original plans...(doesn't that happen all the time?!)....and plan on getting the CDP....

Yeah! The CDP...I can feel it now...


Thanks to all replies.

Chris
 

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Originally posted by C Alan:
I liked the LaserMax internal....but I did not understand why it would not fit the Compact but it would the Pro. Same size frame I thought....Pro just has a grip that is .400 inches longer. ...same size barrel of 4". Or am I mistaken?
Sorry, that should have been seperated better "why not get the pro" then "get a full size for the lasermax"
The lasermax will only fit in the full size/ 5" gun.
 

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I disagree with many of you about the use of lasersights and specifically Lasergrips. They are currently being used by over 300 LE agencies local, state, and federal for both tactical and street use. Yhey are also being used by top teams in most US branches of the military and many abroad. They were strongly endorsed by the late Col Rex Applegate and are currently endorsed by some of the top trainers in the world. In real life LE encounters they have de-dscalated hundreds of near lethal encounters and where firefights were required the hit ratio is over 300% better than the national LE average.

Best Regards
Laser
 

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A laser!!?
You can poke someone's eye out!



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"Ain't nothin' like a finely-tuned 1911..."
 

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Originally posted by laser:
I disagree with many of you about the use of lasersights and specifically Lasergrips. They are currently being used by over 300 LE agencies local, state, and federal for both tactical and street use. Yhey are also being used by top teams in most US branches of the military and many abroad. They were strongly endorsed by the late Col Rex Applegate and are currently endorsed by some of the top trainers in the world. In real life LE encounters they have de-dscalated hundreds of near lethal encounters and where firefights were required the hit ratio is over 300% better than the national LE average.

Best Regards
Laser
That's cool...One post and a name like "Laser", I should have recognized that you were an expert here


What Nathan said is Valid... Maybe for a TRAINED pro, the use of a laser might have some advantage, and while even us lowly civilians can benefit from this, many inexperienced and non dedicated shooters probably wouldn't.

If you've ever used one, you will learn in a hurry it's not as simple as putting the dot on something and pulling the trigger.

Hollywood is great, those guys can hold a 1/8" dot on something REALLY steady at like 100 yards, but in reality, at 15 yards, you are making wild circles trying to concentrate on where the dot is, AFTER you have aquired it.

Trust your sights, practice with the sights, if you want a laser, fine, use it as a reference for your sights, but use the sights. They work in bright light, and in low light.

Also, in most Low-Light encounters where a Flashlight is warranted, something like a Surefire will wash out the little red dot, so you're back to the sights
 

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I find lasers distracting. I spent more time chasing the laser than I did getting on target.

Jaydee you've got mail.



[This message has been edited by Gonzo308 (edited 08-10-2001).]
 

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Here's a post I made a few months ago about what I think of lasers...

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Want to see lots of fun? Put lasers on all your forced-entry team members' weapons, and have them storm a drug house in the middle of the night. Now find a suspect or two in the middle of a dark hallway.
"Jim, is that your dot?" "No, I think it's Steve's." "No, Steve's laser is intermitently shorting out." Paul says " My dot is on suspect number one's forehead." "No that's my dot", says Mike. By this time, Ted is twirling his laser in tight little circles (like a kid with a sparkler on July 4th) trying to figure out where his dot is..............You get the idea.

If you've never been involved with a forced entry, I don't expect you to understand how confusing things can get. Things don't always go as planned, and the events don't always happen in the order we like them to. My point in a nutshell is that the best planned tactical entry was reduced to shambles because the brass thought that lasers are the best thing since sliced bread.

6 entry team officers with MP-5's and 1911's
crammed into a narrow, dark unfamiliar hallway upon entry, is a high risk venture to begin with. Don't make it worse by relying on lasers to show where we are aiming. Now add some movement into the operation - movement of the good guys, movement of the bad guys, and movement of all those tiny little red dots. I don't believe you can pick out your dot from 5 others when movement is occuring on all these different axis. The point man had presence of mind to go Surefire, which helped immediately, as now we can use the iron sight. Also, the smoke from the "flash-bangs" has a nice side effect with laser light. It tends to relect it right back into the eye of the operator.

I'm not saying don't use them. I'm saying I don't use them, and have tried to explain why.


I haven't found a practical use for them yet....other than annoying the cat!



[This message has been edited by shane45-1911 (edited 08-11-2001).]
 

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Jaydee
It is true that I have only posted one time here, but I am a expert in the use of lasersights. I am the President and one of the original founders of Crimson Trace Corp. The information I gave in my last post is all based on true facts. From a training standpoint the unexperienced shooters have the most to gain by training with a laser, even if they do not use one on their personal gun. It allows off range training of muscle memory including the all important muscle memory of the trigger finger. For those who train for point shooting the advantages are huge.


Glock_rock, the FDA regulates the maximum beam outpt for visible lasers to 5 MW. This is a conservative figure and cases of actual eye damage are extremely rare. In fact in order for permanent eye damage to occur the beam needs to be in contact with the retna of the eye for .2 seconds, in order for this to happen first the beam nust be held focused on the lense of your eye and you must not blink. Try to hold a beam that steady and even better yet try not to blink.

shane45-1911, No one really knows where the swat scenario of confusion actually came from but the story has been around for a long time. It has been proven not to be much of a problem, it is not hard at all to know which laser is yours. Some swat teams do however send in lead man only with laser on. Also I have never heard of a case where a flashlight was bright enough to dround out a 633nm 5mw beam. Not even the Surefire 9p.

I have personally never been in a gun fight, but I have many friends who have, some on multiple occasions, and one a whopping 7 times (you would know his name if I mentioned it here). It is interesting how we all talk about training and how valuable it is and it truely is the most important thing you can do in preparing yourself for day we hope that never comes. But there is no training that fully prepare you for a real gunfight other than experiencing it first hand, for most people much of the training goes out the door as instincts take over. Ask 10 people who have been there and done that "what did your sight picture look like?" 10 out of 10 will probably say "what sight picture". The key point I am trying to make here is that training for real life encounters needs to focus heavily on your muscle memory techniques until they become instinctive, because your instincts will likely take over in a firefight. Another interesting point is that once a person has survived a firefight their skill level for the next is increased exponentially.

As you can see I have a passion here, please do not take me the wrong way, I do respect your coments. There is a new video out by Paladin Press called "Shots in the Dark" Which covers state of the art laser tactics.

Best Regards
Laser
 

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Originally posted by laser:


shane45-1911, No one really knows where the swat scenario of confusion actually came from but the story has been around for a long time. It has been proven not to be much of a problem, it is not hard at all to know which laser is yours. Some swat teams do however send in lead man only with laser on. Also I have never heard of a case where a flashlight was bright enough to dround out a 633nm 5mw beam. Not even the Surefire 9p.

What do you mean - you don't know where it came from???? It came from my actual real-life experience. "Proven not to be much of a problem"???? Some of our men could have been killed, or is that "not much of a problem" to you?

Also, you have NOW heard of a case where Surefire has drowned out a laser. It was a surefire M3 that our pointman was using.

Your laser grips are dangerous in some applications, and not the be-all/end-all that Crimson Trace hypes them to be.

Check your facts before you make further statements.



[This message has been edited by shane45-1911 (edited 08-11-2001).]
 
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