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Discussion Starter #1
a guy at work stated that it is a "well known fact" that the enemy back in vietnam, after overpowering US troops, would take and use the m-16 ammo in their ak-47s. he then said that our troops could not use the ak-47 ammo in the m-16.
[forgive me if i'm wrong (and correct me please), but i thought the m-16 round was .223, and the ak round is 7.62x39.]
now, i've heard that their was indeed a 223 ak-47 made, and that could be what he was talking about.

QUESTIONs:
1)can a .223 round be fired out of a 7.62x39 chamber?
2)i don't have a clue whether or not these types of guns were used back then(as well as caliber, so enlighten me, please.
3)i'm sure i have some vietnam vets out there who know what they're talking about, so what do you know about this?
4)if the 223 aks were made, was it during the same time frame?
5)is this guy just an idiot?
6)am i an idiot?

i appreciate your kind words, fellow forumers.



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Answer:

5)the guy is an idiot.

The M-16 is 5.56mm. The newer AK-74 is 5.45mm. The rounds do not interchange. In Vietnam the enemy used SKS's, AK-47's (both rifles chambered 7.62x39mm), M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, anything they could get ahold of. They scoured the countryside for weapons, and would pick the battle area clean of M16s, M1911A1s, M-14s, and anything else they could take from the Americans. But they never fired 5.56 ammo in their AKs unless by accident. That is a good way to have one of those annoying little case rupture problems.

The Soviet AK-74 (5.45mm) was adopted in 1974 and was not likely to have been used during American involvement in the Vietnam War.

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[This message has been edited by dsk (edited 10-21-2001).]
 

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Originally posted by BOLANTEJ:
a guy at work stated that it is a "well known fact" that the enemy back in vietnam, after overpowering US troops, would take and use the m-16 ammo in their ak-47s. he then said that our troops could not use the ak-47 ammo in the m-16.
3)i'm sure i have some vietnam vets out there who know what they're talking about, so what do you know about this?
5)is this guy just an idiot?

As someone with first hand knowledge, - YES, this guy is a bonifide idiot - please keep your distance - you are to be commended for asking!
 

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Originally posted by dsk:
Answer:

5)the guy is an idiot.
BigTime! This guy is talking out the side of his neck... The 5.56mm will not fire from the 7.62mm AK-47, period! It's like trying to fire a .223 in a .308, or a 9mm in a 45, just ain't happening!

I just love it when the "So-Called" experts pipe in, and talk about Weapons, Planes, or Tactic's used in the Military... Many who never donned a uniform sure seem to have some unique opinion's, but only show their IGNORANCE!

You probably handled it very well, you should be happy you didn't buy into this BS.

Call him on his BS, and maybe, you'll witness some serious Tap-Dancing!
 

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You find this guy and make him try it in his AK-47. Boy, I guess the whole friggin round, case and all, would go through the barrel. I've never even thought about doing it, and when I get home next week I guess I'll measure the case diameter of a .223 round to see if it would fit (I forgot the specs). Regardless, the guy is an idiot.

themao
 

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Guys I heard this too! I'm going way out on a limb here so dont flame me to bad BUT I had a Polytech AK at the time so I had some 7.62x39 ammo. First instead of calling the guy an idot, I thought about it. If you stand the two rounds side by side there shoulders are about the same height. The .223 can be chambered by hand and the bolt closed! Since the shoulders are about the same height the .223 self centers in the 7.62 chamber and the bolt can be closed with the case head somewhere in the middle of the bolthead. Sure this would damage the gun(I think?) and the bullet would float down the barrel, but the gun should fire single shot. Could this be what the guy meant? I never fired my AK, but it seems possible. Guys be nice!
I dont dismiss anything without trying out all the angles.
 

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5.56x45 chamber in a 7.62x39 AK' ???

'Doubt it!

Of course, if the firing pin of an AK-47 was welded in the firing position in the bolt it might go off when the bolt was released on a round...

Once.
 

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I heard the same thing when I was in high school in the land half way around the world (25 years ago.) Of course I didn't have knowledge of any rifles back then, and always thought that AK47 was superior to M16 (for this particular reason.)

Once I learned about the 2 rifles, it seems to be impossible to exchange the cartrides between them. I think it was just a propaganda the NVC used during the period to gain the psychological effect of the U.S. troops.

If this is really a myth, what else could possibly be the reason in the first place?
 

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Originally posted by Silver Surfer:

snip
The .223 can be chambered by hand and the bolt closed! Since the shoulders are about the same height the .223 self centers in the 7.62 chamber and the bolt can be closed with the case head somewhere in the middle of the bolthead. Sure this would damage the gun(I think?) and the bullet would float down the barrel, but the gun should fire single shot. Could this be what the guy meant? I never fired my AK, but it seems possible. Guys be nice!
I dont dismiss anything without trying out all the angles.

I see your point, but this moves the argument from "impossible" to "possible, but tactically insane". Who in their right mind would take a perfectly servicable battle rifle and, at best, turn it into a single shot, hand loaded weapon?

I was 13 when Saigon fell, but it's been my impression the NVA/VC were never hurting for ammunition. If that's correct, there's no basis for trying to use U.S. service ammo in Soviet weapons. Grabbing U.S. weapons *and* ammo would be much more appropriate.


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War story! The VC would indeed scavange arms and ammo, but they used the correct ammo in the rifles. I had a guy tell me once that the army issued one time use sub machine guns to truck drivers. Supposedly they had a grenade pin for a safety and were the size of a Mac-10. Didn't make sense to me but I just listened and nodded and went on my way.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
thanks for your support. i thought he was an idiot.


not to dog out the airforce fellows, but that is the branch he was in, and forgive me if i'm wrong, but i thought the majority of the ground troops sent to these jungles were marines, army, etc..

he did tell me that his commanders told him this during their "briefing" or whatever it is you servicemen call it. could've been the "psychological propoganda" as stated above....dunno.

anyone know of the .223 ak 47? the local armoury told me there was one made, but i don't know if it was the same time as this war. take it easy all, and thanks again for the laughs....keep 'em comin'.


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He was in the Air Force? And they sent him in to join the ground troops? Well, that explains everything!


The only .223 AK's to my knowledge were the ones offered commercially by Norinco prior to the importation ban. Finding spare mags for them is a B-I-T-C-H.

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Thanks guys!(for being nice) Just figured if some "VC" had to do this he was out of ammo and needed one more round so he could stick the end of the barrel in his mouth.
 

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The guy maybe an idiot. I hate to say without knowingg him, but what was his point. If I could chamber the 223 somehow in my AK47, why would I and how would this help me? It sounds like a bad excuse for getting your but kicked in a fire fight. It seems like it would be better to just grab a mag off of one of your dead comrads!



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Well, I guess the guy must have been in someone else's Air Force. I was in the 3rd Security Police Squadron at Bien Hoa AB, RVN. An old M16 (not an A1, buy the way) was my constant companion for the entire time I was there. The Air Force trained me in air base defense, and the Army (1st Cav) trained me as a Forward Artillery Observer, but no one ever taught me how to fire a 5.56x45 round in an AK 47 or SKS. AFAIK the only rifles charlie had that would fire an M16 round was an M16!-TR
 

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The VC may not have done it, but a similar practice was done by the Japanese. I wish I could remember the calibers, but one of their rifle calibers was just slightly larger than ours. While not great, they could fire captured US ammo out of their weapons but the same could not be done the other way. Sorry for the lack of data. This goes back to one of those late night History Channel shows that discussed Japanese small arms in some detail.
 

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File this one alongside such gems as "them M16 bullets come out a'tumblin!" and the "60 caliber" M60's. It wasn't too long ago that I had a fellow contending that the M16 was "bigger" than the M14!!!! He KNEW...HE had BEEN THERE.

Well, the recollections of dumb kid who wasn't really paying attention at the time are NOT improved by aging them 30 years.

These days, I just nod.

Rosco
 
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