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Discussion Starter #1
So as the boss I have outstanding sergeants who work for me and I get to do a lot of cool stuff with high energy professional young cops. The sergeants do the work and I get to enjoy police work like everyone wishes they could. Anyway....

At a search warrant briefing I was in the back when a discussion broke out about the best way to do "knock and talk's" when the suspect inside may be armed or possibly dangerous. Mind you all these cops have high capacity plastic semi auto pistols of one brand or another.

I stepped into my office and brought out my old Smith and Wesson model 60 .38 special with the hammer shrouded grips. I walked back into the briefing and showed how, an old Lieutenant many decades ago on a homicide investigation showed me, how to put it in my left hand coat pocket and cover the door/suspect through the pocket. If things went sideways you just pulled the trigger until the gun was empty and/or the suspect stopped doing things that get creeps shot. The hammer is covered so no snags on the pocket lining as you shoot and worst case scenario is you have to buy a new coat.

Unassuming and safe.

This promoted a ton of discussion and head scratching on the young cops parts.

Two weeks later I was reading the monthly range report. Seems those young cops listened to an old cop. There were a bunch of .38 and .357 revolvers being qualified with at the range by all those high capacity gun carrying cops.

Who says revolvers/old ways are completely outdated?
 

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Yup... in winter I used to carry my S&W 342PD in my jacket pocket specifically for T-stops. Never had to use it but made me feel better when wearing a more bulky jacket that could hinder the draw.

Great post and sounds like a fun agency or unit to work for!
 

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You bring up some good points DRM, Have a back-up gun and a plan....And always have a clear head and focus on what you’re doing.

Far too many Police are getting shot because they’re NOT watching people’s hands. They let Subjects wander around at a scene with their hands in their pockets, or not visible.

I would tell my Guys after Roll Call, Pay attention to the Radio, back each other up, and Make sure all of us go home Safe in the Morning.

Calls holding ? We ALWAYS had calls holding... “ QSL, First available”.

Officer Safety is job#1. Too bad they don’t teach Officer Survival in the Academy or in-service.
 

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When in uniform, in cold weather, I carried a 642 in a jacket pocket. In the warm weather it was carried in the holster fastened to my vest, under my uniform shirt. The uniform shirt had a zipper with fake buttons, so it was not too difficult to acquire the weapon.
 

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I still carry, what I carried since '03........Retired Jan. 1 this year, as a detective for the district attn'y office.

Colt Lwt. Commander 45 acp and a Colt Defender for a BUG. Sometimes had a S&W 42 in my coat pocket as well.





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Back in the 90's most of us were trained on the modified weaver stance and I had been doing the firearm qualifications using the modified weaver stance. But, one day I decided to tray that old (at that time in the late 90's) Isoseles stance that were taught back in the 70's. I immediately found that I was a lot more accurate using that old stance. Yes, it exposed more of your body to the bad guy, but, it was a lot more accurate. So I changed over to the Isosceles and have been using it ever since.
 

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Back in the 90's most of us were trained on the modified weaver stance and I had been doing the firearm qualifications using the modified weaver stance. But, one day I decided to tray that old (at that time in the late 90's) Isoseles stance that were taught back in the 70's. I immediately found that I was a lot more accurate using that old stance. Yes, it exposed more of your body to the bad guy, but, it was a lot more accurate. So I changed over to the Isosceles and have been using it ever since.
I would hope that guys use this stance today, as if they are shot, they are facing the threat and are more likely to take the round in the vest.
 

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Back in the 90's most of us were trained on the modified weaver stance and I had been doing the firearm qualifications using the modified weaver stance. But, one day I decided to tray that old (at that time in the late 90's) Isoseles stance that were taught back in the 70's. I immediately found that I was a lot more accurate using that old stance. Yes, it exposed more of your body to the bad guy, but, it was a lot more accurate. So I changed over to the Isosceles and have been using it ever since.
Things adapt and change with time. The Weaver and variations was developed to minimize frontal area to an opponent in an era when body armor was unheard of, then optional- but expensive. The evolution in understand takes time.
Sometimes, concepts become lost to time. I'm a SOF soldier, not an LEO. Currently, its common to see all sorts of, mostly subdued, patches on armor. The initial, and primary premise, has been lost on the younger generation. In the very early 90s, with the introduction of rifle resistant armor, it became the norm to have a full color US flag centered on the vest. The purpose was not IFF. The assumption was that "fromt sight, center mass" was commonly understood. Presenting a uniform or camouflage pattern profile offerea wide margin for shot placement. Offering a bright, centered "bullseye", on the premise that ones opponent is reasonably competent, provides a POA- right over the heaviest, most protected, part of the armor. Assuming I'm going to get hit (and I have been, far too often), I want thwat hit to be in the most protected part of my armor.
 

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In fact, both Weaver, modified Weaver, and iso were developed from a pure shooting efficiency standpoint.

They were not born of anything else, certainly not from an exposure standpoint. That’s old locker room wives tale stuff.
 

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The Weaver stance was born by Deputy Sheriff Jack Weaver back in the days of infancy for combat shooting. He won matches and shot so well others shot the way Jack did.

The reason Jack shot the way he did was because he had an arm injury that required him to have his arm bent. Not because it was the perfect shooting stance.
 

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I remember the pocket revolver being taught to my academy class, in 2008. Of course, I didn’t buy my 442 until 2012. I was required to carry a G22 and from late 2009 onward, used a G27 as a BUG on my vest. I usually didn’t wear a coat, but on those very frigid nights, I would throw the 442 in my jacket pocket. There was an old Trooper that carried a revolver, in his pocket, all the time. He was the only other one I know if, in my area.
 

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The Weaver stance was born by Deputy Sheriff Jack Weaver back in the days of infancy for combat shooting. He won matches and shot so well others shot the way Jack did.

The reason Jack shot the way he did was because he had an arm injury that required him to have his arm bent. Not because it was the perfect shooting stance.
I also can only shoot from some type of Weaver stance. If I use the isosceles stance, it produces pain within just a couple minutes.

There is also a misconception that only the isosceles allows full swiveling to the left or right without moving your feet; it does allow full swiveling, but so do the Weaver variations.

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