[shane45]

OK, had an Idea. With the participation of one of the smiths here, it seemed like a good idea for an online/forum class of sorts. We set up a group of people and coordinate with the willing smith. We order all the parts from the smith. He walks us through the assembly on line and we all post our progress and problems and questions untill we are done. We keep the specs relatively simple and enjoy building something for ourselves. The willing smith gets to sell a whole bunch of parts and fix what we botch

Any one like the idea???

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George Orwell: "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."

 

[harley45]

I'd do it, in a heartbeat!!!!

 

[shane45]

OK, thats 2 in !

Anyone else? Any smiths up to the task? George?, Ned?, Metalsmith?, Bob H?, Bob L?.


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George Orwell: "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."


[This message has been edited by shane45 (edited 11-23-2001).]

 

[shane45-1911]

Shane,

If no one offers to show us how to do it right, I'll volunteer to show you how to do it wrong.

Learning from my mistakes will definitely not be the most cost-effective approach, but believe me, once I've showed you how to wreck a few guns you'll know what NOT to do the next time!

 

[shane45]

LOL, ahh the good Captain Kirk always cracks me up

 

[Sammy Fan]

Sign me up as well!! It is so much easier to learn from others' past experience especially in an on-line format. I can't say enough about the things I learned in this Forum!!

 

[EJR]

Sounds like a great idea.

 

[JOEE]

That idea has disaster written all over it,no flame intended but just think about the liability involved........

 

[MrAngry]

I will be working on my own guns anyway, so I'm interested. I have always figured that if you can teach yourself how to fix something, and the cost of the tools to do the job are about the same as paying someone to do it, buy the tools and do it. I know that doesn't work for everybody, but when I pay someone to do something and it doesn't turn out perfect I feel ripped off.
Joe

 

[shane45]

JoeE, I don't see the liability. What would be different about taking one of these classes live? Everyone is doing their own work and are their own liability. Of course any smith that takes on this project could write a disclaimer at the onset. I would think that there is less liability than having the actual smith do the work as he has "touched" the gun. Although I am sure many try, I think it would be hard to sue someone over what I did my self. Advice and how to's are provided here all the time. If smiths and manufacturers of parts felt the same as you, they would'nt sell or work on anything or even submit a solution here on the forum. I don't think an assembly project like this would be beyond the ability of anyone with the mindset and commitment to try. It may take us 6 months to get there but hey, it would be fun and rewarding.

I think we have a fair amount of takers, now all we need is a smith! A lot of GREAT smiths here, I am confident one of them will step to the plate! Please, before we have to elect shane45-1911 and he bankrupts us all

[This message has been edited by shane45 (edited 11-26-2001).]

 

[bjg-1911]

Hey Guys,
I have a suggestion...there are several good courses that you can go to for'smithing instruction that I am familiar with:
1) Bill Laughridge's course at C&S
2) Jack Weigands course,
3) John Nowlin's course.
All these fellows are first class 'smiths. The only course that "I" am familiar with where you take home a finished custom pistol is Bill's course, in Fremont, Nebraska. He usually gives the course every September for one week( 8 hours + per day). All hand tools are either brought to the course by participants or ordered in and waiting for you. He shows you how to modify all the parts in the pistol. You practice on the factory parts and then do it for real on the custom part. When you leave at the end of the week you have done it "all" yourself except for any milling. With 6 to 8 participants you might be able to persuade Bill to give a second course in the spring.
At John Nowlin's course the class builds a gun. I am not familiar with Mr. Weigands program at this time.
Unfortunately, with the variability of 1911 formats there are so many possibilities of what to do to correct tolerance variances that it would be very easy to screw up a barrel or frame, etc..
I am not trying to "rain on your parade here" just trying to save you some aggravation. If you are going to go through the process IMHO you should make the commitment to do it right. If that means taking a week off and spending several thousand dollars to do it right that would be a small sacrifice in time and money to have the "knowledge and a gun

." Once you've gone through it you can apply it to any 1911 forever...
From a 'smiths point of view, the time and effort in calls and consultations times 6 or 8 would be overwhelming. Especially taking time away from a production shop which is how you make your living. If you are all in one place, and you have all the parts that you need there with spares, it very much simplifies things. If your working all day doing this "stuff" to take the time after hours to do it as a project would be very time consuming and oppressive

!
Any other 'smiths out there care to comment here?
Respectfully- Barry

 

[Jack Weigand]

BJG-1911 has hit the nail pretty much on the head. From the perspective of having instructed the 1911 NRA curriculum at Montgomery community College for the past 8 years, it would be very time consuming to do a class on line. The one thing that could not be conveyed is “the feel of things”. Pistolsmithing is very much getting the feel of things, what feels rite. I find it beneficial to bring a completed pistol to the class with me so you can get the feel of work done correct. Just getting to watch someone with years of experience in his or her field can bring clarity to a subject. The liability is a real issue for me and most other smiths. People are very quick to threaten with law suits these days; it is a reality in the business world. In my class you will go home with a working pistol, well that is if you listen to me, LOL! In the past 8 years only two of my students went home without a working pistol, they just didn’t listen! We do a class test fire on the last day of the class, lots of happy faces! We are now offering a basic and advanced class, each 4 days and I run them consecutive. All the details are on my web site www.jackweigand.com . Other than that I wish you the best in trying to get an on line course going.
God Bless
Jack Weigand

 

[shane45]

I appreciate all the professional responses and opinions. I think that I am trying to bring the class to us. Us being that catagory of people that are not looking to become smiths, just want to build our own just once and simply cant afford the classroom route that has been suggested. I think that it was a forgone conclusion that "support" outside the forum is not part of the deal. The smith with limited input from the students picks the parts based on his knowledge of whats best/easy to work with. Here is part of one of my replies to a well known smith on this board.

"> do you see the local service station giving classes on how to do breaks
> and tune ups?
> not sure if it would hurt the business of those involved.

No but this was more like the home depot thought process. Home Depot teaches
me how to do replacement windows and therefore I buy them from the depot. I
mean already we have about 6 people that = 6 frames 6 slides 6 barrels etc
etc sold by the smith running the class. Heck even a entry to the class fee
is not unreasonable. Anything beyond basic assembly and fitting is beyond
the scope of my intention. I am sure that as everyone progresses and people
get bright ideas outside the scope of the project, it will generate work for
sure. Murphy is ever close!


> a guy checkers a gun and gets into trouble, or has hammer follow and he
> gets good advice
> is that different than a how to class to build a gun from scratch??

I don't think it is. You could probably do a search for each stage of
building and already find it on the forum. But in the class format, I just
though it would be a heck of a lot more fun. I have built thousands of
computers. I could easily walk a forum class through a PC assembly, load and
configuration. Would this make them PC builders? ABSOLUTELY NOT! I would
assume that just like gun building, there are a billion different
circumstances and combinations out in the real world of PC's and 1911's.
Walk someone through known specific parts, and its some what easy. Enter the
realm of this frame, that trigger group etc, whole nother ball game. So my
long winded point is that I don't think our project would take a penny out
of any real smiths pocket. What I think is more likely to happen is some
people will find that they just don't have the skill or knack and now they
need their unfinished project completed by a smith, or they will finish the
class and then go on to have the things done by a smith that they want but
are beyond their limitations."

Some of us just simply would have enough trouble finding the funding for the parts but this is probably as close as we can come to a class because that expense puts it out of reach. The forum could be conducted at the smiths pace. Maybe more than one smith cares to be involved? Let me know what you think guys. Thanks to all. Maybe we can actually get this off the ground.

 

[DT Guy]

You may do a search for "MIMF" (The Musical Instrument Makers Forum?) They do on-line classes about luthiery, violin making and such.

Jack-
I see your point about 'feel.' MIMF seems to presume some basic skills, so the instruction focuses on the 'how-to' of the subject. The touch, I suppose, is conveyed as best as possible.

In short, I think it can be done, within limitations. (No offense, but building a violin is as 'touch' oriented an activity as there is.)There just needs to be consideration given to the qualifications of the participants and the limitations of the medium.

That said, I'd sign up in a heartbeat...

Larry

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He who fights and runs away had better run pretty damn fast.

 

[Jack Weigand]

DT Guy, I see your point but when was the last time you saw someone injured or killed with a violin. There is a safety issue here that is not really an issue connected with being a luthier. I am just being a smart axx but I am sure you get the idea. I am sure you guys will find someone interested in doing the project and it will be fun for all.
God Bless
Jack Weigand

 

[shane45]

Another benifit for the money challenged would be the ability to mail and share tools through particuler stages if need be. My minds eye, however invisioned more of the minor fitting catagory of parts.

 

[Metal Smith]

Hi Shane, I’ve been holding off posting on this topic cuz it has potential to open up a real can of worms. I commend you for your idea because it has a very noble cause. I basically agree with everyone above to a certain degree and must reiterate that there is a safety and liability issue involved. I don’t think many smiths want to get involved fixing ruined parts. This may get a little time consuming and could cause hard feelings. As you know, you kind of have an on-line gunsmithing class now. We already have a lot of great smiths that offer help when needed. Hope this help out, Pete

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Metal Smith

The only thing I know for sure is what I can measure!
NRA Life Member

 

[Ned Christiansen]

Shane, just got your off-line message about this and read the posts. It's a wild and crazy idea, and for that reason I want to take a little more time to grasp it a little better. But in all honesty I think I will wind up saying thanks a mil for including me on the list of ask-ees, and it does sound like something that could benefit all concerned (not sure about the liability angle), but in an effort to keep myself out of delivery-time hot water, I had best decline. Lemme think about it some more, though, and thanks again for putting me on the same list as these other guys!

 

[Shooter Ed]

If this thing ever gets off the ground I'm in. I have an STI frame that I've been using for a paper weight. However, I can understand if no smiths want to touch this project.

Ed.

 

[10ring]

This would probably be a tough thing to do. However, I'd like to make a suggestion. How about members post explanations of various aspects of fitting and fixing of 1911 parts and problems in the FAQ's section. This could be contributed by individuals who have some experience with certain aspects as well as the professional gunsmith. Maybe the professional guys would be so kind as to critique our "work". Hopefully some of the excellent dialogs from Metal Smith reside in this section already. There was also a project by ????? (can't remember his screen name)which would be very useful to read.