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Discussion Starter #1
I'm interested in varying opinions on carrying 230 gr. .45 ACP ball ammo for defensive (carry) ammo, as opposed to JHP.

It would seem to me that a .45 caliber wound channel is sufficient without expansion, although larger would be even better. Is penetration extreme without JHP?

I'm sure y'all have varied opinions on this subject; let's hear 'em.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks, Dubb.

"Ball Ammo for Defense" with 102 replies, and "230 gr. FMJ overpenetration" with 54 replies, should certainly give me the info I was looking for without re-hashing it all over again.

Thanks
 

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i use it. over penetration is seems to be over exaggerated.
so what if the ball goes to some 20 inches after penetrating gel tests (which is not really like human body). i don't expect anyone behind the bad guy (let alone neighbor). sounds good if the bad guy are close to each other, saves me a bullet; two birds with one stone.
 

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In todays environment you could be very well shooting at a car body. I carry a mag of ball when I am traveling when I stop I switch to a spare mag with Tarus Hex rounds.
 

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If you're aware of your backstop, as you should be any time you aim your gun, overpenetration becomes much less a negative issue. As I've read here before, "two holes bleed faster than one"
 

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OR NOT

I understand that every specialized unit that utilizes a 45 ACP pistol does so launching JHP's.
230g JHPs.

IMNSHO&E there is NO downside to a 230g JHP. If one's gun does not operate reliably with at least one modern 230g JHP choice then get the launch platform fixed.

My choice? The non-bonded Golden Saber bullet.
 

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Stopping power is a misnomer. There is no handgun round that will garuntee a one or two shot stop. There are rounds that in shootngs seem to have worked better than others and rounds in jello that seem to work better than others. The best thing to do is cross correlate these results. Me I favor a JHP almost every time. If you live where JHPs are prohibited look real hard at the federal EFMJ or Corbon Powerball in .45 . Over penetraition is something to be worried about with ball. You are responsibile if that round does a thru and thru on a bad guy and strikes an innocent half a block away. Ball in a handgun also has been a lousy performer with only about a 65 % one shot stop rating from Marshall and Sanow, and even the jello shooters admit it goes way too deep.

I favor the Hydra Shok 230gr JHP , the Golden Sabre 230 gr JHP,
and the Gold Dot 230 & 200 gr JHPs.
 

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I've always found it interesting that for something like 60 or maybe 70 years ball ammo worked in the 45 ACP. In fact, the 1911 built its reputation with ball ammo.

In the past few years it (ball) has become almost unacceptable. Some how the bad guys have become more easly penetrated, yet at the same time much harder to stop. Yea, if your JHP doesn't work (expand) it perfroms much like ball, but when did ball's long record of acceptable performance become null and void?

I'm not advocating either way. I carry the latest designer magic bullet because heaven knows if I don't my life is in jepardy. I just wonder when the laws of physics and human anatomy changed.
 

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Since you asked for opinions, I believe FMJ are highly over-rated. I believe the stats from using actual street performance shows a FMJ will only stop an attacker 67-ish% of the time, whereas a JHP is up in the 80 percentile (approx) under similar circumstances. I can't remember the exact numbers, but it really doesn't matter since the JHPs are shown to be much more effective regardles of exact numbers.

Just my opinion ;)
 

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I look at it this way, a 230 grain hollow point that fails to expand duplicates the performance of ball, but if properly design and not plugged by foreign material then we get 12+ inches of penetration and up to .70 caliber of expansion (subject to bullet design).

If you must shoot into a vehicle or it is a realistic possibility, then switch to bonded bullets, but be aware that most pistol rounds have a very hard time penetrating the windows and doors of many vehicles (most) and the percentages are just not on your side. If you are shooting thru the windshield, you are in a bad spot, since the momentum of the vehicle, even with the driver out of the picture isn't going to be stopped by a pistol bullet and may accomplish what the driver was attempting to do to you in the first place.

As far as ball's long track record, it hasn't become null and void, there are just so many better options out there, to consider and so many better weapons, capable of handling more than ball.

Many 1911 style pistols in the early years wouldn't feed anything but ball reliably and bullet designs were really in thier infancy and fairly unreliable or because of the profile, wouldn't feed so what were you left with....230 FMJ ammunition.

My opinion is to go with the JHP. If it works like it's supposed to and expands I am happy, if it doesn't....I can still reach them where they live.
 

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Dave T said:
I've always found it interesting that for something like 60 or maybe 70 years ball ammo worked in the 45 ACP. In fact, the 1911 built its reputation with ball ammo.

In the past few years it (ball) has become almost unacceptable. Some how the bad guys have become more easly penetrated, yet at the same time much harder to stop. Yea, if your JHP doesn't work (expand) it perfroms much like ball, but when did ball's long record of acceptable performance become null and void?

I'm not advocating either way. I carry the latest designer magic bullet because heaven knows if I don't my life is in jepardy. I just wonder when the laws of physics and human anatomy changed.
Based on that, it's a wonder our army is not still using the 03 Springfield bolt action.:D
 

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It's not thta ball doesn't work it's just that modern JHPs work better a precentage of the time more . Also 70 years ago liability lawyes weren't waiting to go after you if you a 2 for one kill with ball.(with the 2nd being unintentional.)
 

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I am forced to carry JHP's for work reasons, but would not feel underarmed with FMJ. One day JHP's will be deemed to effective and FMJ's will be back in style.
 

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I always perfer FMJ to self defense against two legged aminals however big dogs are a much different breed and they pack allot of meat and musle tissue. In this case I would use a hollowpoint to put the big dog/dogs down. CCI 200 grain hollow points should do the trick.
 

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I carry 230gr hydra-shoks. My thoughts are, that as any quality hollow point should do the job. If it doesn't expand, then you have ball. I do lean towards the proven designs. The lastest wiz-bang bullet might work better, it might not. I'll try new toys and invention with many things, not with something like this.

As long as you are confident in your choice,

Steelheart
 

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rimfire said:
I always perfer FMJ to self defense against two legged aminals however big dogs are a much different breed and they pack allot of meat and musle tissue. In this case I would use a hollowpoint to put the big dog/dogs down. CCI 200 grain hollow points should do the trick.
OK a Big dog might way 125# up. A big human might weigh 200# and up (sometimes way up). You need a JHP for a dog because they pack a lot of meat and muscle but a 250 human doesn't? Does not compute.:rolleyes:
 
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