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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this is beaten to a dead horse, but...

I am planning to start a family soon, and need to keep their safety in mind. I have read plenty of information on over-penetration testing on pistol rounds, primarily .45acp in a HD scenario. Plywood, furniture, drywall. I understand this would not be the best platform to use for home defense.

The question I have, is what is a good platform, in comparison?

I have a nice shotgun for home defense, but I would think slugs and buck shot would do the same to dry wall, etc... what of bird shot?

I assume rifle rounds would go through walls as well.


Suggestions? Where can I find more information?
 

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Yep. Beatin that dead horse. Search "Best gun for home defense", or somethin like that. Good luck. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
i searched a bit, but all the threads weren't answered because they were "beating a dead horse"


what info i got was just what people use, not why, or how it is with over penetration


most people on this forum use 45 or buck shot, both of which i know go through walls


the frangible loads are supposed to be safe in your house, but they cost a lot... a lot as in $15 per mag. and are rumored to be unreliable...
 

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I would never be shooting at an intruder when knowing your family members are but twelve feet away behind, safegaurded but by 3/8" layer of sheetrock...

That being said, #4buck pellets will not penetrate as much as 200 gr JHP rounds, or, 230 gr FMJ rounds, which would likely sail clear thru multiple layers of sheetrock.

Bird shot would likely be 'safest', and I doubt anyone taking a charge to the torso at 4-6 feet distance will be later laughing at your choice in shotgun ammo.
 

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Anything you SHOOT has the potential of going through a soft drywall wall. You may want to make sure that a kids room or bed is in a place that may be located out of the most likely point of aim of an intruder (or you) in your house. Nothing is 100% sure so this is a hard call. Good door and window locks, LOUD security system and keeping a good situation awareness (look to see who is at the door before opening, and such) is a real good start. Best of luck to you and finding the best balance of things for your growing family. Dave. :)
 

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There is no real good answer. All tested, tried and true "shootin folks" type ammo can over penetrate. Many of the gimmick rounds that are guarantied to "open and dump all the energy in to the target" are not really tried and true. Once you understand this, and in fact plan on it, it is much easier to sleep at night.
I have a family. I won't jeopardize their safety to worry about what MAY happen IF a round goes through a bad guy AND then a wall AND continues to travel somewhere else. You can only plan for a few what ifs in my opinion. I use good, reliable weapon platforms. I load my weapons with reliable LEO/Govt grade ammo. I have attended training from some of the best in the bizz. I train as much as I can on my own, on my salary. If I wake up some night, and there is a un welcomed guest or guests in my house with the intent on being unfriendly, I'll bet a dollar that over penetration won't even cross my mind.
 

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Over penetration is really not an issue w/ this stuff. It sure will make a bloody mess of a perp but exiting the perp won't be a problem. This was proven by my not so scientific studies.:)
 

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I have a nice shotgun for home defense, but I would think slugs and buck shot would do the same to dry wall, etc... what of bird shot?

I assume rifle rounds would go through walls as well.


Suggestions? Where can I find more information?
there's your problem right there. you need to get a house that has lathe and plater walls, made with real hardwood 2x6's that are actualy 2x6, not 1 and 3/4's by 5x3/4's and not made out of pine. anything that can go through that isn't going to be moving too quickly on the other side, maybe some rifle rounds or 12 ga. slug, but i doubt any handgun rounds.
 

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With this you don't have to worry about over penetration. There, problem solved. Now, burning the down your house is your new worry.
 

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there's your problem right there. you need to get a house that has lathe and plater walls, made with real hardwood 2x6's that are actualy 2x6, not 1 and 3/4's by 5x3/4's and not made out of pine. anything that can go through that isn't going to be moving too quickly on the other side, maybe some rifle rounds or 12 ga. slug, but i doubt any handgun rounds.
Sorry bro... a .45 will penetrate thru the exterior siding, 3/4" boxing,thru lathe and plaster, thru the dinning room lathe and plaster wall and thru another layer of lathe and plaster before exiting the house.;) Also, .45 cal WWB rnd. ball will penetrate 2 CCA 6x6's set up 6" apart.:eek:
 

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As was shown above, Box O Truth is some of the best info I have seen on the net. There must be a balance. Me, I'm gonna only take a shot if KNOW I will hit the BG and I'm gonna use something that will penetrate enough to hit the vitals. If it will not penetrate a sheet rock wall, it will not penetrate through common clothing like denim, winter jacket etc and still go deep enough to hit vitals.

Bird shot is for birds, 00 Buck is for bad guys. YMMV

BTW- I really liked the Taurus Judge... until I saw the testing on Box O Truth. Not enough penetration with the common 410 stuff, better off with my 1911.
 

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One of the best threads I've seen on HD weapons and over penatration is in "crusader hall" on lightfighter.net. You can tell who is giving the errornet answers and who has good poop. I'd recomend it. Grab a cup of Joe and read the whole thing. Myths don't have a long service life over there.
 

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With this you don't have to worry about over penetration. There, problem solved. Now, burning the down your house is your new worry.
t6hats one kool pic.
FYI I got 2 5 round boxes of WWC 00buck mil grade plain brown cardbpard boxes with a white sticker and black writing.
Having lived threw a real life instance.
The 45 was in the Father in laws safe. All I had was the 5906{s&w}
As were the Ar15,s When the knife was pulled on my wife the simple 9mm stoped the perp. One simple warning andhey did not want to get shot so they tossed the knife. Had they thought longer about it I would have been within my rights to protect her and my family.
Really hard to say at the time or now what is overkill{no pun intended} but at the time my head was saying to me "2 shots back to back or 3" I was not thinking one "If" things would have gone that far!
Realy strange fealing afterwards and have thought back on it.
All I wanted to do was have them back off or drop them and 2-3 shots would have done it.
I have also been on a jury for murder where a girl killed her BF who was kicked out few nights before who came back and was chokeing her.
She had a knife and did what she need to do anything less she would not have done.
In the jury room they said she used unreasonable force:confused:
To me he could have left at anytime but stayed to get stabed more.
I have heard many times never pull a gun unless you plan on the use of it.
But having done so makes you realy think about it after during no thought them or you = you. Yes I would have felt bad If i had shot them or even killed but would have fealt worse if it was my wife.
It is in fact a no win deal even if ya win{yes I know that makes me sound like a wuss but so be it}
 

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Nothing wrong with .45 ACP for home defense.

Over penetration is a concern ONLY if you miss the bad guy. If you
have to shoot, shoot deliberately enough not to miss. DO NOT spray
and pray.

Joe
 

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Now, burning the down your house is your new worry.
Don't give me any ideas. I happen to be a pyro. If I want to burn the bg I'd use my hairspray and my lighter (yes I use the same thing to kill scary bugs when I can)...I'd save the hardcore stuff for s'more night.
 

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How about some under penetration horror stories. Lets assume someone enters your house with a gun. You have your emergency plan in place and at the first sign of trouble your family followed the plan and are now behind you safe and away from your line of fire. You shoot at the intruder but you frangible bullets are stopped by the sheetrock wall he is standing behind. He hears you shooting and not hitting him so he comes from behind cover to return fire. Now you have a clear shot at him and you empty your gun into him scoring hits center mass. Unfortunately he is wearing a leather jacket and warm winter clothing so your safe bullets do not have any effect on him other than getting him tick off enough to return fire. Sadly he wasn't worried about frangible bullets because he doesn't give a rat's behind about over penetration. He is not a good shot so he misses you but the shots got right through the wall your wife is behind and fatally wound her. She yells out she has been hit so you load another mag of your frangible bullets because you have to stop him before the kids are also killed. You score some more hits but you can't get through that leather jacket with your frangible bullets . He fires again and his bullets go through the sheetrock like butter and kill your kids. At this point the police arrive because the neighbors called them. They score kill shots and stop him with real bullets and your life has been saved. Unfortunately you spend the rest of your life regretting not being able to stop him from killing your family because you used frangible bullets.

Have a plan

The plan should include having your family move to a safe area behind you putting you between them and the threat

Practice so there will be less of a chance of a missed shot going through a wall.

If your bullet goes through the intruder so what two holes are better than one and the bullet will have expended most of it's energy so it won't do much damage after it exits.

The key is to use the most effective ammo to end the threat quickly because a hit by you will not stop the attacker who has a fatal wound from continue to fire before loosing consciousness and dying,

My go to gun is a Remington 870 loaded with 00 buck. My 1911 is ny back up gun.

If you still insist on using inadequate ammo read this

http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume4/number3/article432.htm
 

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One of my best friends is a Dekalb County,GA PD Sargeant.

He shot an adult male at a range of about 25-30 feet with his Scattergun Technologies 870- Duty load of Remington Reduced Recoil 00 Buck 8 Pellet load.

7 Pellets hit the upper Left shoulder area. One Pellet missed the target. The seven pellets that hit remained lodged in the Perps body. After a lengthy stay in the Trauma Center at Grady, the Perp survived.

At the shot, The armed individual instantly stopped all aggressive action....:biglaugh:

I totally agree with the Bird Shot for birds, Buck Shot for Bad guys. FWIW, My two HD SGNs are loaded with Federal Low Recoil 00 Buck.
 

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Make mine AR

At the tail end of my "Civilian Police Academy" class I took last spring, we had our "range day."

One thing we did was fire .40 S&W loads into several layers of dry wall and .223 Hornady TAP (60 grain version) into the same test bed. 16" barrel FWIW.

The .40 loads, Speer GD, penetrated more boards. Not a whole lot more if memory serves me correctly but it did penetrate more.

Clint Smith is big on the AR for home SD.

The AR has a lot going for it.

Large magazine cap=less manipulation.

The rifle round has a greatly improved chance of achieving the "one shot stop."

And for me anyway, I'm quite certain I would be quicker on target and much more certain of achieving a faster, more accurate shot as opposed to a handgun.

And let's not forget the intimidation factor that an AR with a big mag hanging out of it may have on the aggressor.
 
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