Overloaded

Originally posted by airborne420:
Anyways, when confronted in a low light shooting situation coudn't reaching for your gun and light at the same time make you slower, less smooth, and less acurate?

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NO!!! Practice drawing both at the same time until that too, becomes second nature!

The Z2 is configured to be used with the Roger's/Surefire technique, allowing you to hold both the light and your gun in the usual two-hand grip. (The Z2 is the new and improved version of the 6Z for those that have that model...).

If you practice drawing both gun and light at the same time, it WILL become more natural.

...or you could just start wearing a miners' helmet with the light already attached!

Originally posted by shane45-1911:
...or you could just start wearing a miners' helmet with the light already attached!

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A miner's helmet you say! Shane I think you might be on to something here! Better get it pattened before someone else steals your great idea!

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Today is the first day of the end.

Have you hugged your loved ones today?

Why would you want to draw your pistol and your flashlight at the same time? If there's enough light to see that someone is trying to kill you, then just draw your pistol and shoot him. If there's not enough light to make that determination, then drawing your pistol (and flashlight) and pointing in on an unidentified "thing" is a bad idea (and if the thing is a person, likely a criminal act). You had better light up unidentified things FIRST.

This brings up a point which is often overlooked. We all know about the techniques to integrate a flashlight alongside our pistol. The "Harries" and the "Rogers" techniques being the most widely known and used. While these techniques are quite useful WHEN ONE KNOWS ONE IS LIKELY TO HAVE TO SHOOT, they are less so in more ambiguous situations. If you go around pointing your light & pistol at persons who turn out to be no threat, you will be in jail PDQ. If you're just "looking around" with your flashlight, you need to "uncouple" it from your pistol. Your pistol may be held in a retention position with the muzzle depressed or it may be in the holster. If you FIND a deadly threat, then use your pistol with your strong hand (only). If you try to "present" quickly into a Harries or other "flashlight-integrated" position, you will probably move the light off the threat and are quite likely to "muzzle" your support/flashlight/weak hand or arm. Losing and then having to reacquire the threat isn't a good thing. Shooting yourself in the left hand/arm isn't a good thing (you'll, at least, drop your light).

Thanks to Tom Givens for "showing me the light" on this subject.

Rosco



[This message has been edited by Rosco Benson (edited 07-20-2001).]

Originally posted by Billy Ray:
So, you're getting "Bat belt syndrome?" Why not ad a pager, a Palm Pilot, and a cell phone, while you're at it?
Billy Ray

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LOL. Thank goodness for my travel vest.. -Gilmore

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ME,WE!

Originally posted by shane45-1911:
Once the threat has been determined through whatever means, then there may be a time when you need to illuminate and shoot in one motion.

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I still fail to see how one can "determine" there is a threat that needs shooting and still need to light it up to further ascertain that it is, in fact, a threat. If it is a threat, SHOOT IT. If you need to light it up, then you don't yet know what it is. In most cases, pointing a pistol at unidentified things isn't a good idea.

There are times that the Harries or Rogers techniques make sense, like going into an area where there is a great likelyhood of finding a hostile target. This might be a military scenario, a police raid, or a homeowner clearing his house after the alarm goes off at 0300. However, in more ambiguous situations, it is best not to point the pistol at what you're lighting up (or even allow the pistol to be SEEN).

A citizen will put up with having a flashlight shined on him during a traffic stop. If you're muzzling him during the process, he is quite likely to complain (justifiably). If you "light up" your teenaged daughter and her boyfriend, while they're smooching on the porch and he sees your pistol, would you care to guess who'll be on your porch wanting to talk to you as soon as he can get to a phone?

The Harries and Rogers techniques are good ones. They are techniques to be utilized when one is entering a situation in which encountering an attacker is not just possible, but PROBABLE. Thus, these techniques may be gotten into PRIOR TO going through that door, or down those stairs, or into those woods. There is no need to "quick-draw" into these positions. They are PROACTIVE, not REACTIVE techniques.

For general investigation of one's surroundings, where one might POSSIBLY run into an attacker, I think it is better to leave the pistol holstered (or held in a low-key manner if in hand) and search with the light in one's weak hand. The light may be held indexed to one's cheek as in the Surefire technique or up toward the shoulder like the old "flashlight as an impact weapon" technique. If shooting becomes necessary, then present or draw the pistol and engage the threat strong-hand-only while keeping him lit up with the light in your left hand.

That's my $.02 anyway.

Rosco



[This message has been edited by Rosco Benson (edited 07-20-2001).]

I have to agree with Roscoe here. If you recognize the threat in low light there is no need for a flashlight, you can see well enough. If you see that your opponent is holding a gun and it’s in low light conditions you are TOO close already and it is TOO late. You are so far behind the curve that unless you are Superman you will never get your weapon out and into action before you are taken out, let alone getting your weapon and a flashlight into action. Furthermore, what if that perceived threat is a plainclothes police officer with something else in mind and you just happened to stumble in?

Combat here is not an appropriate immediate action. Alternatives must be employed. If you can’t escape then you better have something else in mind. If this is a robbery can you make the guy believe that you are reaching for your wallet while you are actually reaching for your gun and come up shooting? Do you really want to do that? Is there a possibility of disarming the suspect?

Unless you have enemies who just want to kill you outright usually there is some other motive in mind other than killing you immediately or killing you at all, which gives you, time to think. If the threat intends on killing you immediately and then say robbing you, they are most likely going to do it from ambush and you are probably going to loose before you even knew what hit you.

Practicing mechanical skills is appropriate but a citizen needs to think problems through before they encounter them. Rather than spending a bunch of time going through the drill of drawing your gun and flashlight perhaps you should practice with your wife on what both of you need to do when encountered with a robbery in a parking lot of a movie theater at night. I don’t know about you but I am not going enter into a gunfight with an opponent with my wife standing next to me. My first priority is to get her out of harms way or at least significantly reduce the threat to her even if it’s at the expense of my own life.

My wife knows that I always enter high hazard areas first, such as parking garages, and not to follow until given an all clear. My wife knows what to do when I say certain phrases or words. My wife knows what certain hand and body signals mean and what to do when she sees them. All of this took time and practice to make it look and sound very casual and natural.

Airborne all of these weapons and devices you are carrying are not nearly as powerful as your brain. Perhaps you should consider lightening your load a bit and start working on reacting to what you will most likely be faced with in keeping with your lifestyle.

Originally posted by Billy Ray:
So, you're getting "Bat belt syndrome?" Why not ad a pager, a Palm Pilot, and a cell phone, while you're at it?

Practice drawing you light and pistol at the same time. As the others said, it will soon become a very easy draw.

Billy Ray

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um.......you forgot the pocket protector......