[Skunkabilly]

Ok...thought I'd like to start a name-brand gun-fight.

This probably won't happen for a year or so but I'm looking for a replacement for that Kimber I sold. I'll probably get a SPringfield MilSpec and build it up to an IPSC limited 10 gun. But I've also been looking at the P7. I shot one before and it's amazing. I know a single-stack 9mm doesn't compare to a single-stack .45 in terms of firepower, but other than that, (and the UGH price) how do you guys feel about the P7 and how does it compare to the 1911 in terms of a concealment pistol? I like the size. Not small, but skinny.

------------------
Jeff More
Irvine, PRC
All your AR-15 are belong to us!

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. The P7 is as you note, a bit smaller than the 1911 full size, but there are more compact 1911-based defensive arms out there.

Having said that, I am a great fan of the P7 single-stack pistols. I've owned 3 in my life and currently have one. All were accurate and utterly reliable with bullets weighing at least 100 grains. Actually, in one gun I tried 90 gr handloads in, it worked, but I didn't try it in each of the P7s I owned.

The fixed sights have been exactly "on" out of the box for me with these guns and I find them very comfortable to shoot.

One problem is that the P7 has most of its weight rearward as its slide is short for its handle and therefore, light. Holsters need to really fit this gun for comfortable carry.

Internally, while not complex, the P7 IS much more difficult to detail strip than is any 1911 and the little mousetrap springs can be monsters.

Best.

 

[Army Chief]

I've been a P7 owner for many years, and I think it is an excellent -- if underrated -- pistol in every respect. Far from inciting a name brand war, I think you'll find that a great many of us consider the P7 to be an ideal stablemate for the 1911.

In many respects, these two pistols play to each other's strengths (reasonably easy to shoot well, extremely fast to put into operation, examples of truly excellent design). In those situation where a 9mm must be the sidearm of choice, the P7 is my overwhelming favorite.

They are rather pricey, but you'll not find another production gun today that delivers this kind of "custom pistol performance" right out of the box. If it wasn't for the 1911, I'd probably be spending a lot of time on a P7 discussion board someplace.

Chuck

 

[Scooter]

P7 has a 4" barrel in an extremely small package. It's fully ambidextrous. Very flat shooting and very fast. The downside is it easily overheats. Mags are expensive. Parts are expensive and hard to get, it's quicker and easier to order parts from Australia than from Sterling. There are a lot of parts and some of these parts do break, almost on a regular basis. The drop safety catch is very prone to breaking especially from a lot of dry firing.

 

[Megatron]

How much can a P7 be had at gun shows?

Megatron

 

[GLV]

Owned and shot every production P7. Currently have two P7M8s. Got the first PSP in 1982. Have had one broken spring on a PSP caused by me--when I tried to cock the gun with a primer down in the mechanism from Norinco junk ammo. Removed primer but spring had been over stressed and broke about 200 rounds later. Current guns are dryfired a lot, one of the M8s was dry fired every day for a year before I took it to Gunsite to use weak hand in a course.

Never had any problem getting parts for any H&K product, however my son is an H&K armorer. GLV

 

[Jim Watson]

I had an early P7-PSP. It was reliable, accurate, and flat to carry if not very light. The only problem I had was the totally different "manual of arms." The only way I could get routine proper operation was to shoot it exclusively for about a month. By then my reflexes were set. But a couple of strings of 1911 or revolver and it went out the window. I was not willing to commit to one model, so I did not keep it.

You may be more adaptable and able to "program your brain" for the gun at hand like Ayoob wrote in a magazine article. It is a good gun and worth looking at.

 

[Kenneth Lew]

I have both a P7M8 and a Kimber CDP Compact will offer from my experiences from both.

Pros.

1. The P7M8 slide width and height is much smaller than the Kimber CDP Compact.
2. The P7M8 grip width is thinner.
3. The P7M8 has milder felt recoil.
4. The barrel is so low in relations to your "pointing finger" you can actually shoot at a target without aiming.
5. Mags eject out like a rocket.
6. Gun is perfect for left and right handers.
7. Gun just feels good in my hands with the long grip.

Cons.

1. Gun gets hot after 150 rds.
2. Does not have any slugging power.
3. PITA to keep clean or you will regret it.
4. To pretty to rough handle it.
5. Hard to find holsters for it.
6. People will call you an elitest.

What am I carrying now? P7M8.
What would I rather keep? P7M8.
What would I rather have in a self defense situation with only 1 mag? Kimber CDP Compact as I usually carry only 1 mag.

Any more questions, email me.

Kenneth Lew


[This message has been edited by Kenneth Lew (edited 11-17-2001).]

 

[col132]

P7s a fine gun, but if you're a tinkerer, stick with the 1911.

 

[GLV]

I have never experienced any problem going from the P7 to SA auto to revolver, etc. So much depends on the individual and the number of reps done with the firearm. I do use the P7 as a primary weak hand gun but I still shoot other guns weak hand.

My P7s have been very reliable, in fact the only ammo I ever found to be a problem was the PMC very short HP, 100gr?? Don't remember--way back in 82. The only P7 that was a pain was the K3 when using .22 conversion. The cleaning process was more of a problem than the floating chamber Colt conversion. Someone else owns the P7K3 now. GLV

 

[sar]

Skunk:

I have two handguns that I use all the time a Colt.45 and a P7. The P7 serves as my summer carry car gun. It is extremely concealable and reliable. I have never had a FTF and I have shot it every other week since 1994. As for people quoting the 'manual of arms' nonsense, forget it. Every gun has its own way of operating. And I can switch back and forth from the .45 to P7 with no problem or having to shoot it exclusively for a month. No part on my P7, has ever broke, so when the other poster said parts break on a regular basis, he is just flat wrong. Holsters, no problem. Lou Alessi and others make holsters that are perfect for the P7. Heat is no problem with the gun unless you are the type of person that goes to the range and just blazes away. I usually shoot 200 rounds a range session with it going through presentations and other drills and haven't even noticed the heat. Alot or guys will give you advice on P7 who do not own one. If you ever shoot one you will want to own one. It shoots like a dream and makes you feel like shooting smiley faces on the target.

[This message has been edited by sar (edited 11-18-2001).]

 

[wishbone]

The P7 is a fine gun,and a joy to own & shoot.If you want the best info on the P7 try to get the VCR tape "P7 Pistols & Benelli Shotguns". Although I have been told they are no longer available, most HK dealers have them, and will lend or rent them to you..WARNING--you won't be able to think of anything else untill you get one..When the HK Board gets back on line you might inquire about the tapes there.Thats the best board for HK info.For now try this link for info on the P7. http://www.hkpro.com/contents.htm

 

[DBR]

I have owned several P7s. They are very nice guns especially in a shoulder holster. I don't like the ergonomics of the trigger particularly when wearing gloves and I found it quite easy to drop the magazine unintentionally.

The reason I don't own them anymore may be trivial to most of you, but was important to me. If you are holding someone at gun point, like in your house, and you have the gun cocked (squeezed) and the police arrive and tell you to put down your gun - the first thing it does is go "click" - quite loudly - when you release the grip cocker. To me it sounds like you tried to fire a round and it misfired. I think it could get you shot!!! Just MHO

 

[sar]

DBR:

I think that your concern about the click noise is unfounded and if you are covering a person in the guard position "waiting for the police" you would not have the squeeze cocker depressed. You would actually have the gun on safe with your finger on the trigger. Much like if you were covering a person with a .45 you would have the safety engaged with your thumb on the safety. I would never cover a person/suspect with a single-action gun without the safety engaged and my finger on the trigger. At least that was the way I was taught.

Skunk, only the wanna-be Seals and ninjas care about the click of the squeeze cocker releasing.

[This message has been edited by sar (edited 11-19-2001).]

 

[BB]

DBR, why on earth would you hold someone at gunpoint with the safety off, especially a single action like the P7?

The P7 is very well balanced and pointable, with a decent trigger, low bore axis, positive mag ejection and a simple manual of arms, which makes it a very fast shooting pistol. I've found mine to be very reliable, with no failures at all with lots of different ammo. It is, however, heavy for its capacity, and YES, it gets HOT. I don't know about some of the more masochistic members of this board, but my P7M8 gets so hot after 70 rounds of leisurely shooting (not "blazing away", slow fire with only two mags) that it can't be shot without gloves or skin burns, and I'm not exaggerating. Also, because the thing has so much metal in it, the heat doesn't dissipate quickly either. This is not a range/plinking gun.

 

[sar]

BB you are right about it not being a range gun and it does get hotter than other guns. But for self-defense in a 9mm it is hard to beat. And if someone was ever in a situation where they needed the number of rounds where it got too hot to shoot (and I doubt that) they have many more problems then a hot handgun. On a side note I hope to God I am never 'covered' by some of above shooters and they sneeze.

 

[DBR]

BB, SAR - to clarify, technically the P7 is not "off safe" when it is squeezed - it is just cocked. It still has the long trigger stroke similar to a Glock. I think realistically, under extreme stress it would take an extraordinary level of practice to counter act the normal response of gripping the gun hard.

I was trained not to put my finger inside the trigger guard until I was ready to shoot, so "cocked" or not, sneezing is not a threat.