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Discussion Starter #1
any of you guys own or fire a H&K p7? I was wondering how the accuracy compares to a semi-custom or custom .45 1911.
Thanks!
 

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I find that the P7 pistols have much less recoil than a 1911. Of course it is a 9mm instead of a 45. The practical accuracy is outstanding, I don't think there is any gun I can shoot as quickly and as accurately within 15 yds as the P7 series. When the range is longer the better sights , sight radius and crisper trigger of a good 1911 really shine in MHO.
 

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I am a big P7 and 1911 fan. Although the P7, with its fixed barrel is inherently accurate, I would not expect 1.5" machine rest groups that came from my Baer.

The P7 does have a shorter sight radius and an SA trigger, while pretty good, is not as crisp as a well done 1911.

I highly recommend examples of both guns.
 

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I have a hard time with my P7. It shoots great, but I find the squeeze cocker is a tough thing to adjust to. I don't like to depress the cocker as soon as I go for my firing grip (since the gun is essentially off-safe right in the holster), but I found it tough to grip the gun lightly out of the holster, and then increase my grip strength as I get the gun parallel to the ground and start extending my arms. I also found it tough to grip the gun in this way and keep my trigger finger "quiet". It seemed to me there was a chance a small muscle spasm might pop it off the frame and into the trigger guard. With the 1911, I grip at full strength while the gun is in the holster, keep my finger indexed on the slide stop nub as I draw the pistol, and then thumb the safety off when I'm just about to full extension. The thumb safety isn't off until I'm nearly on target, which I feel alot better about. The P7 is a great gun, it's just not a great gun for me.
 

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P7 & 1911

I have 3 1911's (2 WC's & 1 Colt) and 1 H&K P7 PSP.

The 1911 design is my favorite as I shoot no other gun better. All of my 1911's are in 45ACP; which is also my favorite auto cartridge.

The P7 is a great carry pistol and I feel very at ease with one in the tube because of the squeeze cocker safety system. Mine shoots very tight groups, with the accuracy edge still going to my 1911's.

When I carry concealed the P7 is what I usually pack. I like the compact, slim design. I also like that it is the most reliable pistol I have ever owned. I have never experienced any failures with this pistol. And, because it has a flutted chamber it will still "extract" even if the extractor STB.
 

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Hi Guys. Sorry to say my first post to this wonderful forum is sort of long, but having been a huge P7 fan and having just been bitten by the 1911 bug, I have put a lot of brain cycles in comparing these two wonderful guns:

I have a Tripps HC'd P7M8 with factory sights that have had tritium inserts installed and a Kimber Series 1 Custom that has gotten the full up MCSOCOM treatment (with the exception of the markings, it is pretty exact). I have about 5K rounds through the P7 and 2K through the ICQB 1911...

All things being equal, I think the P7 has slightly more inherent accuracy then the 1911 and is head and shoulders above the 1911 in 'practical' accuracy. From the bench, I get equally good groups (2" for both at 25yds, but I also don't have much bench experience, so that's a huge factor I am sure).

The P7 is simply an easier gun to shoot well; less recoil, the gas system is so very very smooth, the barrel is mounted extremely low and a 10 year old can control the recoil. I can put 9 rounds of ammo downrange and into the A Zone of an IDPA target in less then 3 seconds (from the ready @ 10 yards). I am not trying to boast about my own skill here, it really is all about the gun; I cannot reproduce those results with any other 9mm pistol, and can't come close with the 1911.

Furthermore, all of my friends (non-gun owners) find the P7 kiss simple to shoot and have a great time with it while 2-3 magazines through the 1911 usually has them saying "Ok, that was fun, got anything smaller?" I think this is an important data point because if a novice finds shooting one gun easy compared to another (accuracy being equal between the two), someone with experience can probably take advantage of that to great reward.

I think the P7 gains a huge portion of it's advantage from being a 9mm pistol. I would really like to try a 9mm 1911 and get a better idea of how each platform compares to the other. Better yet, how about someone sends me a P7M7 (the extremely rare, only 6 ever made, .45 version of the P7) and I will shoot a few thousand rounds through it and do a full review!

GK


P.S.
All that being said, my MCSOCOM clone is a really amazing pistol to own. The thing feels like it's milled from a single block of artillery iron and detail stripping it is a journey into genius. I am still utterly amazed that this object was designed almost 100 years ago...
 

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I have an early H&K P-7 with the heel mag release. I like it alot as recoil is minimal for any 9MM of it's size and weight. It will heat up above the trigger guard if I fire a few mags through it in a minute or two, but if I keep my finger from the frame it's not much of a problem. I use to shot it in some IPSC Matches in the past and had the same problem Slowhand had until I just went to using a full grip when I placed my hand on it while it was still in the holster. I know it's cocked in the holster, but I used a holster with a covered trigger guard and keep my finger off the trigger until I was almost on target. This bring up another problem with the P-7 as the grip is heavier than the slide which makes having a good holster so important. Overall it's a good pistol, but expensive which is one of the reasons it was discontinued.
 

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"Overall it's a good pistol, but expensive which is one of the reasons it was discontinued."

It hasn't been discontinued...yet.

The P7M8 is still catalogued by H&K, though the P7M13, the P7M10 and the several versions of the P7PSP have gone the way of all flesh.
It's just too expensive to produce when they can sell lots of plastic USPs at a much smaller manufacturing cost.
 

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Gary- You are the only other person who seemed to have the same beef with the P7 as I did. I couldn't figure out how no one else saw that as an issue unless they were cocking the gun right in the holster. I thought about doing that, and I'm very careful about "finger off the trigger until on target", but the thought of the gun off safe in the holster before the draw got started gave me pause. That said, plenty of people who walk around with Glocks are doing the same thing, so who am I to talk? ;)
 

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Slowhand said:
I couldn't figure out how no one else saw that as an issue unless they were cocking the gun right in the holster.
I've thought about this a bit too. In true legal use of a gun to protect yourself situations, your life is in imminent danger, you have no other recourse, and you must stop your own immediate and impending demise. There is (as I understand it, at least in my State) no legitimate reason to ever draw or "brandish" a firearm prior to the moment of use. Practical or not, that is the way it supposed to work.

In those cases, a person is going to draw and fire as quickly and carefully as they can - and from my admittedly limited practice with my P7 (my range does not allow draw and fire drills - so I've only done this dry-firing), I think that most P7 owners would think it is a strength of the design that if you squeeze it as you unholster it (or as you put it, 'right in the holster'), you are on target and ready to fire in one swift motion. I think that's how it's supposed to work - but I certainly could be wrong.

I find it difficult to grip the gun with the firmness that I would grip any gun that I'm about to fire, and NOT depress the safety, so in pulling the gun from the holster, the safety is off from the time my hand fully grasps the grip - and that's in the holster. Hope that makes sense...
 

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I have owned two P7M8s. I still have one. It is a great pistol, but I prefer my Les Baer 1911s. The Baer's are more accurate, however I have not looked for a pet accuracy load for the P7. The LB pistols shoot everything well. The P7 should have better accuracy in theory with a fixed barrel. The P7 is very quick to get on target, but the sight radius is shorter than the 1911. IMHO the P7 is not especially mild on recoil for a 9mm. My BHPs have less recoil sensation as do Sig P226s. The low bore axis on the P7 is great. Like I said above, the P7 is a great pistol. Some love them, others do not. I like them, but I still prefer a good 1911. Watch-Six
 

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Thanks for correcting me SAWBONES. I didn't know the P-7 was still in production. That is one of the reasons I love this site as I can find out things which I didn't know. Slowhand, I remember reading an article years ago by Ayoob I believe where he recommended you chock the P-7 with your weak hand as it came on the pistol in a twohanded hold. I tried it and it still seemed to me my strong hand didn't have a good grip on it. I also wondered if you had to use your weak hand for something else like pushing your attacker off you would I be able to remember to cock it. That is one of the reasons I went to a firm grip when I placed my strong hand on the grip of the P-7. Who knows maybe Ayoob's advise might work for you, but I would still be concerned if my other hand was busy with something else.
 

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Sawbones,

HK is still making the P7M13.

I am fortunate to work for one of the only sheriff departments that issues them for duty carry. I would not trade it for anything.

Greg
 

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I saw this thread-

-a couple of days ago and have thought about the comparison of
the two. I own and carry a P7m8. It is as accurate a 9mm that
is available out of the box. It is somewhat heavy compared
to a Glock 26, but not uncomfortable with a good holster. I have
also owned, up until recently, a Series I Kimber Supermatch. I
would have to say that this is as accurate as any firearm I have
been lucky enough to shoot, bar none. From a rested wrist
position it was near same hole accuracy. Is the P7 as accurate?
Very close. But two entirely different firearms and feel. So to
answer the question, IMHO, a high-end 1911 is as or
more accurate than the P7.
Is it as easy to carry? Toss up-personal choice. To me, no.

BTW, why did I get rid the Supermatch?
To get my 'dream' gun, the P7, of course.
 

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the p7m8 is on my list as well. i hear such great things about it..i have never fired one and cant wait till i get the chance. the big thing stopping me is the price of course.... and i dont want a used one. it is a gun you buy new. you are the original owner of. at least thats my view.....great comparo as well.. p7 vs 1911!!
 

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I've been shooting my friend's P7M13 for a few months now. Normally, when I shoot an auto pistol, my groups look more like a shotgun pattern than anything resembling a group.

With the P7M13, it is so easy to shoot and so accurate that I start to laugh and get giddy. At 15 yards all 13 rounds are going into a 1" hole (and my friend shoots even tighter than that!). I have never been able to do that with any other auto pistol!

I attribute this to the accuracy of the fixed barrel. I don't know if the polygonal rifling contributes to this. The low slide profile (less mass above the shooting axis) and the gas system makes it recoil less -- although not as less as I expected (it doesn't seem less than my Beretta 92FS [although the P7M13's grip is actually wider!]).

The squeeze cocking mechanism is elegant, as, other than the mag release and the trigger, it is the only other control on the gun. You put the mag in, squeeze to release the slide (also cocks the gun), and shoot.

The new P7M8's have a bunch of US-inspired liability scribbling engraved on the right front of the gun; one reason I'd try to find an older one.

-Dave

P.S. The latest SOG (Southern Ohio Gun) flyer listed a bunch of P7M8's for ~$850 or so. Didn't see any on their web site though.
 

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Gary- I tried the "left hand squeeze" method earlier, but it felt kind of wierd. I abandoned it. My natural grip will easily cock the gun when I go for my firing grip in the holster, which is why I found it so hard to draw the gun with a light grip, and then tighten it as I extend my arms.

Like I said, the gun with the cocker depressed is no different than a Glock with a 3.5# connector in it, so it's not a really big deal, I guess. I just like to keep the safety mechanisms in place until I get the gun on or close to the target. When I draw a 1911, then gun is on safe until the pistol is nearly at full extension.

My other small beef with the P7 is that I never was super accurate with it. I don't know if it was because of the mushy trigger, the short sight radius, or the large amount of light the rear sight let through, but I never was as accurate with the gun as I thought I should have been. It really is a great piece, it just wasn't my cup of tea. A good 1911 shoots better for me, and "speaks" to me more.
 

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Robert1911 said:

I find it difficult to grip the gun with the firmness that I would grip any gun that I'm about to fire, and NOT depress the safety, so in pulling the gun from the holster, the safety is off from the time my hand fully grasps the grip - and that's in the holster. Hope that makes sense...
Try squeezing the moment you bring both hands together AND the gun is level with the target, but before you extend your arms out.
 
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