[djoem]

Has anyone had any problems with a para ordinance cco , I just pick up one i had 2 malfuntion with 2 boxes of magtech 230gr ball ammo.

Thanks

 

[SMMAssociates]

djoem:

I just got one a few days ago myself....

(Promised George I'd buy another Para in 2007 and made it on 12/31!)

If it's a new gun (mine was old stock) they are coming through with plastic bottom magazines. The four I have (bought for another purpose) all needed a little work. The upper left rear corner (with the bullet facing forward) may bind on the ejector. It's OK to gently file a bit away....

The older mags (steel bottom plate) should be fine.

IAC if this is a brand new gun it may just need to be shot a bit more. Seems like any 1911 these days needs a couple hundred rounds through it before you can be sure of anything - good or bad....

It also seems endemic that you have to find a better magazine.... Wilson Combat may be worth a call.... But first just shoot it for a while.

Finally, check the slide stop. Can you get it to pop out of the gun anywhere except the cutout?

Regards,

 

[djoem]

Thanks for the reply
Yes i have the mags with the plastic bottoms i am loading the mags now it seems to me that 4 rounds it fits good when i put 2 more in the same mag its very tight and the ball ammo dont go to the rear of the mag unless i force it .
also is it normal that i hit the mag on on my hand a round feel on the floor
as you can tell this is my first 1911 style firearm

Thanks

 

[SMMAssociates]

djoem:

You should easily get six or seven rounds in the magazine but new springs will make it a little tight. The seven round magazines have six witness holes in the side. Putting in the seventh round will put one behind the lowest hole.

Five holes would be a six round magazine....

You shouldn't drop a round on the floor if you hit the rear of the magazine, but that could be because it wasn't fully seated.

Mine made me crazy tonight - the chamber's either kinda tight or a little mucked up. It decided to feed some SWC's that didn't work well last week, but refused to chamber some round nose my buddy reloaded. Meantime, some older round nose lead from another supplier worked fine. (One of those hung up too....)

Gonna get out the polish .... The top of the chamber is a little rough....

Regards,

 

[SpecStingPL]

Djoem,

Follow Stu's recommendations. Mags may need to break-in a bit. Also, put about 200 more rnds through the gun. It will loosen up.

 

[SpecStingPL]

Stu,

I've just noticed. You're about to hit the big number! (1000 posts). I wonder..., do you get a special title with that? Like Senior member? :rock:

U no yarr stuff!

Thanks for the posts and good luck on reaching 2000.

 

[SMMAssociates]

SpecStingPL:

1000 posts.... Hadn't realized....

I think I get a bill from the site owners ....

I don't know what'll happen....

I learned most of this the hard way. I inherited a Commander about 9 years ago, and finally got around to shooting it some years later. (Long story.) Anyway, it had some strange problems, and I had to learn how to keep it going. Hanging around here and John's board was a very big help.

The big thing to learn is that Dremels are for stirring coffee :biglaugh: .

Regards,

 

[djoem]

Thanks for the reply this weekend i am gonna beat this gun down put 300 rounds thru it and see what happenes

i will let you guys know what happenes

 

[SpecStingPL]

Keep us posted djoem.

 

[SpecStingPL]

I think I get a bill from the site owners ....

I hope not :bawling: I'd have to re-think about how many posts I should do on monthly basis then, so that I can stick around. :biglaugh:

I learned most of this the hard way. I inherited a Commander about 9 years ago, and finally got around to shooting it some years later. (Long story.) Anyway, it had some strange problems, and I had to learn how to keep it going. Hanging around here and John's board was a very big help.

Strange problems Did you have to adjust the grip screw "O" rings to get it working?

The big thing to learn is that Dremels are for stirring coffee :biglaugh: .

Ahh, those darn Dremel tools... Don't tell anyone, but I have one. However, spoons are still my preferred way to stir coffee with.

 

[SMMAssociates]

SpecStingPL:

The Commander is a long story....

The previous owner was even more of a tinkerer than I am....

But when the shock buffer (some kind of rubber) went to little pieces, that trashed the extractor, and I got to learn how to tune one....

The recoil spring was probably wrong, so I got to learn how to swap one. (More specifically what to buy.)

We won't even talk about the first barrel going to pieces or the second one shedding it's bottom lugs.

(I had some help from a smith on that....)

Showing the pics to 1911Tuner and Bob Hunter confirmed what I got from Kuhnhausen's book - the frame was damaged and the slide more than a little torn up.

Basically, the contact between the bottom barrel lugs and the frame should have a profile similar to "P" - a very small projection on top. My little Kimber looks like somebody took a 3/8" drill to the area and left a bow-tie shaped projection on the top. (The rear of the barrel lug area should be more or less vertical.) Anyway, mine was shaped like "b" with the projection on the bottom. This cammed the bottom lugs off the barrel.... The first one was kind of shredded. The second one - the lugs just snapped off like a bad glue job....

Not to mention accidentally diagnosing a bad slide stop in my Tac-Four ('cause I was too stubborn to send it back).

Tinker-R-Us....

I had the CCO apart a few hours ago - it's not always chambering a round for me - first round mostly, but once in a while it's the middle or last. Could be a bad magazine or ammo that's a little off spec (last night some reloads from one source were fine and some others wouldn't work; however some that shouldn't work were....). A little polish here, a little lube there, and much cursing. I really need to hit the range with it again RSN, but won't be able to until next Wednesday.... Mostly it needs about 400 more rounds through it .... (I gotta concentrate on two magazines too - I've got too many .)

Regards,

 

[djoem]

i have 400 rounds thru the gun i am about to send it back ,yesterday i had a leo shoot the gun he had 2 malfunctions in 1 mag .last week the range officer shot it and had 2 so out of 400 rounds approx 10 malfunctions a friend of mine is a leo he polished the ramp for me still malfunctioned he really like the feel but he said he would never trust his life with it. para told me i was limp wristing which i think is bull

 

[USMCbrat]

I am having the same problem with a LDA Carry. A friend of mine gave me a mag with a flat metal follower to try (a ten rounder) and it had no FTF at all. This weekend I when to the show in SF and bought 3 different kinds of mags to try – all with flat metal followers.

 

[djoem]

I spoke to the gun smith at para he told me it happenes all the time they use a max barrel and its to tight so they have to open up and 99 % of the time its corrected he said they will not give me a tag for shipping it out they will reinburst me for shipping because its brand new

I will let know how it is when ever i get it back

 

[SMMAssociates]

djoem:

Good luck with the return to Para.... Turnaround should be a week or so.... (Can't say for sure.)

My CCO is down to "last round failures" and the disconnector may be a little stiff (or a little tall). The former - the last round in the magazine won't chamber - is usually a magazine springs and/or follower issue. NBD to deal with. I plan on shooting the thing for another 400 rounds or so before thinkng about a return. I think I've got the disconnector behaving.

(Still playing lubrication roulette - I can't find what I'm looking for, but haven't had time to really dig. The local sources have dried up.... I may go back to Gunslick.... Meantime just shooting the fool thing, malfunctions and all, ought to be sufficient here.)

Please let us know how things turn out.

Regards,

 

[ejp711]

Lube

Try using Miltec Lube. I used it all thru the sandbox and it's the best we found out of all. Wilson's grease is to thick. And don't lob it on, only a little lube is needed.
I have a fairly new CCO, had the same issues with Magtec.45's. I then stopped using round nose or any Ball ammo and it worked fine. I put 500 rounds of Federal Hydra Shok through it, cleaned it out and polished up the feed ramp, and lips on the mags with my dremel tool. It works fine now, however I do not use re-loads or Ball. I currently have it filled with Hornady TAP/FTP 230 gr.+P or Extreme Shock AFR .45 and have had no stoppages. I've also had good luck using MecGar Mags, which are made in Italy and are the original equipment mags in Sig Sauer pistols. I also have a Sig P220 Carry SAS .45 which has those mags as stock and had no problem feeding any kind of ammo with them from day 1. I feel they are better than Wilsons and some other's. If you look on the Wilson, or Novak.45 mags and see stamped on them " Made in Italy" they are made by the same company. it all comes down to the follower, is it plastic or metal. The plastic ones bind in the metal magazine. Metal followers should work fine and if they don't a little polishing of the feed lips is usually all it takes.

 

[djoem]

I agree with all but i have no experience with 1911 style guns i never heard of a 500 round break in period and i never heard of limp wristing a metal gun a glock yes its light also para told me all they use to test there firearms are remington white box ball ammo i guess i have to see what happenes when i get it back i will keep you posted thanks for the replys

 

[SMMAssociates]

ejp711:

That's the second vote for Miltec today. Guess I'll have to find some....

Thanks.

djoem:

Seems like break-in periods - a couple hundred rounds minimum - are a necessity with new 1911's these days. Although not all of them....

Besides, it's fun....

(OK when it hangs up it's not as much fun, but that's good training .)

Limp-wristing is also common.... The problem is that the slide has to come back and needs some resistance - not just the recoil spring - to work properly. If your wrist isn't locked that can be a problem. (IMHO the longer barreled guns seem to be more tolerant. Maybe just more mass in the frame?)

Regards,

 

[djoem]

The worst customer service ever

I sent my gun back to para they changed the inner recoil spring tested with 7 rounds and sent it back. I shot another 200 rounds and had 2 FTF it cost me 50.00 to send the gun and i requseted to get paid for the shipping they told how did i get my gun back so i said you sent it he said so we are even then. how do you like that. I spent 2 hours on the phone with corporate. these are the things they told me
1- my problem is shooter fatigue no one can shoot 100 round at a time with a small barrel with out limp wristing , i had 3 leos shot it with me.
2- i need to replace recoil spring every 800 to 1200 rounds now they replaced the inner recoil spring so i told him why didnt they replace the whole recoil spring while it there the outer is not there responibility
3- when i sent my gun in the first time i requested that they run a at least 100 rounds they put 7 rounds so i told him how can you tell me its ok with only 7 rounds so para told me send them money for the ammo and they will put 100 rounds
4-Then i get the gun back and the para emblem on the grip is gone

I told him the customer service sucks and i wouldnt trust my life with this
i told him i would rather lose money and sell it then carry this he said dont sell it send it back and we can test it again. i told him to replace the gun he said no not fair to para so i am gonna dump it on gun broker with my dealer and buy a glock or sig and have no worrys

sorry it took me so long to get back to you guys

 

[SMMAssociates]

I sent my gun back to para they changed the inner recoil spring tested with 7 rounds and sent it back. I shot another 200 rounds and had 2 FTF it cost me 50.00 to send the gun and i requseted to get paid for the shipping they told how did i get my gun back so i said you sent it he said so we are even then. how do you like that. I spent 2 hours on the phone with corporate. these are the things they told me

djoem:

Para generally won't pay inbound shipping. (However.... There was a guy who posted being told to return his new gun because of a broken extractor. Para worked the gun over, replaced the extractor, and sent him a check. New gun, and whoever he talked to should have sent him the extractor first. I suppose a clearly broken gun would also justify that....)

1- my problem is shooter fatigue no one can shoot 100 round at a time with a small barrel with out limp wristing , i had 3 leos shot it with me.

I'm an old (and essentially retired) rent-a-cop. The badge doesn't make you a firearms expert. I met a kid from a nearby PD who had really never handled a 1911. His Chief liked Glocks, and that was that.... (If you buy a 1911, though, you tend to become a bit more educated. )

However, the comment is still nonsense unless you, personally are standing there shooting that 100 rounds, and that's still very, very general. My very petite 22-year-old daughter probably couldn't stand 50 rounds in one afternoon. OTOH, I'm 6'1" and about 310#. My hands are large, but not "Holy Cow! in the glove store. I can put a dozen rounds through mine without noticing much, and 50 wouldn't put me off at all. (All bets are off at 100 rounds, unless you're breaking long enough to load up a couple more mags, have a smoke, coffee, or something like that, but the CCO is still heavy enough to worry more about the gun than the shooter. A GM barely bothers my daughter....)

(The only .45 I own that I couldn't stand for 25+ rounds at one session was an old Combat Commander with the GI-style grip safety. Bit the heck out of me.... Much better when I put a beavertail on it. My "insurance gun" - the only gun I own that I wouldn't mind getting an insurance check for after a plane ride - is an S&W CS45, which is roughly the same size and weight as the CCO. It recoils straight back, and carries very heavy Hogue rubber grips. That one bothers my wrist.... But the kid can put a couple magazines through it without complaining.)

Short answer: Nonsense.... 100 rounds at a stretch needs a little better definition, but unless you're working with a "loader" and just tossing magazines into the thing, or are smaller than my daughter.... (She's about 5'5", 110#.)

2- i need to replace recoil spring every 800 to 1200 rounds now they replaced the inner recoil spring so i told him why didnt they replace the whole recoil spring while it there the outer is not there responibility

I really don't understand that.... 800-1200 rounds is right on the money for the recoil spring in this gun. However, they now sell the spring assembly as a complete package - both springs, guide rod, and the little bushing, at Brownells, for about $30. I don't think you can even get the outer spring, although Brownells may still have some. 'Tis kinda silly not to just do 'em both, but if the gun's brand new, there may have been a reason, and the outer spring can take a little more. I assume this is a brand new gun, in which case, I wouldn't worry about that....

3- when i sent my gun in the first time i requested that they run a at least 100 rounds they put 7 rounds so i told him how can you tell me its ok with only 7 rounds so para told me send them money for the ammo and they will put 100 rounds

Nonsense.... On Para's part.... A new gun needs at least 100 rounds, these days, to get the bugs out.... Para's seem to be really tight lately (at least my CCO was), and you just have to work 'em in. I don't think I'd have let that gun out of my shop (if I had one) without running at least a couple magazine-loads through each magazine supplied.

4-Then i get the gun back and the para emblem on the grip is gone

I'm afraid to ask how they got that off.... The tech guy should have offered to put one in the mail....

I told him the customer service sucks and i wouldnt trust my life with this
i told him i would rather lose money and sell it then carry this he said dont sell it send it back and we can test it again. i told him to replace the gun he said no not fair to para so i am gonna dump it on gun broker with my dealer and buy a glock or sig and have no worrys

Under the circumstances, you probably don't have much choice, however I'm too cheap .... IAC, you're still at the outer edges of the break-in range, IMHO. (I'm kinda patient. Sorry....)

Your dealer probably should help with any shipping for the first few months.... At worst, they can charge you what they pay - maybe $30 - and, at best, cover it all.

You should get ahold of George Wedge at Para. "[email protected]". He's kinda busy right now, but should respond. Might take a little while....

He'll want to know when you bought the gun, what dealership, was it new, etc., and who the heck gave you those "interesting" answers. If anybody can help, he can.... Point him to this thread, too: http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?p=1748428#post1748428 should get him close enough.

Regards,