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I recently bought a RO Champion in 9mm and it wouldn't shoot worth a crap either. I actually had to go back and forth with Springfield a number of times before they'd take it back. It's now been gone 5 weeks and is supposed to be back to me in the next couple of days.


I'll be waiting to see what you think when it comes back .
 

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Thanks billy, that's what I thought would be the case, guess we'll see.

Boatdoc, I have some 124gr on order and should be here in the next couple of days, it seems the heavier rounds are a bit more accurate probably due to them being slower, I plan on giving that a try. They just seem hard to get here locally but are easily available on line, can't wait to get my gun back.



For the first 1000 rds on a 9mm platform 1911 I would stay way from
115 gr bullets . They are to light and can cause feed problems . SA
says stay away from them to . After 1000 rd break in you should be
fine . Also load you Magazines full up and keep them loaded . They
will break in easier . 1911 magazine springs run on the tight side .
 

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Thanks Billy, all I've ran so far was 115gr in my emp4 9mm and had no issues past the 1st 200 rounds of issues. My RO had about 200rds on it when I sent it back and had no issues feeding at all but it wouldn't clear a spent shell and got worse with use, plus full mags couldn't be inserted unless the slide was locked back and the accuracy was less than great. I'm hoping things will be better once the gun gets back, but thanks for the inputs. I will say that this ss RO is one of the slickest cycling guns I've ever felt, I was between it and the all stainless Kimber 9mm target and the Springfield just cycled way smoother/better, I didn't think that it was possible.
 

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I just got word from the gunsmith. He said my RO needs a new barrel.
Curious as to why.
Lug engagement?
VIS interaction?
Bore?
Chamber?


I would be curious what an EGW custom-fit bushing and slide stop would do for these accuracy issues. How does your bushing fit?
Does it fall off the barrel when tipped forward?
 

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From my own experience and from what I have read, the RO is the type of pistol that shoots better the more it is shot, related to the tight fitting. Mine has been like that. I read of one case where groups were cut in half once the gun had 1000 rounds through it.
In full custom Bullseye pistols, they'll often "settle" as the barrels and pistol are shot, fouling smooths the bore and the groups go down a bit. Parts are fit and allowed to break in vice get sloppy.
Production barrels are often pretty rough. If they're too rough, they'll foul excessively and hamper accuracy.
Generally we don't clean until accuracy degrades, and then only enough to get it back. Rimfire barrels rarely get cleaned, for both focus is on the chamber with a brush 1 size above the bore.
The RO like the other production 1911s, really don't have much fitting at all. Part of the wonder of MIM and the costs savings. I have one, love it, so not a slam, just the reality of the current production methods. Even some semi-custom shops, like Colt were not allowed to actually fit an oversized slide to a frame until recently, but with the Manager laid off, not sure what the status is.

So let me ask "the" question,,, when you send a gun back does it go to the 'Custom Shop" for repairs or does Springfield have a group of people that just repair guns ? If it goes to the custom shop do they generally give it the once over and fix all the things that aren't right or just address the complaint. This is all new to me and I really don't know what to expect. My new range officer is advertised as a buy and take it to any competition and compete. Everything is labeled as match grade and stamped "NM" and is touted for it's accuracy and reliability.
Production pistols go to warranty for repair by roughly the same group who built it, not the custom shop, unless it was a custom pistol or your custom work had issues. "NM" is simply a stamp for marketing in the majority of companies and there is no industry standard for min group size from a rest at a specific range with a type of ammo, etc. In 45ACP the RO can be quite accurate with a little work, but the 45 is a very forging round to build around. The 9mm, not so much. At 25 yards and less you can get some very respectable near 1" groups from most that we test. At 50 things change dramatically. 9mm starts supersonic and needs to stay that way. Transitioning from super to subsonic is an accuracy killer.

For the first 1000 rds on a 9mm platform 1911 I would stay way from
115 gr bullets . They are to light and can cause feed problems . SA says stay away from them to . After 1000 rd break in you should be
fine . Also load you Magazines full up and keep them loaded . They will break in easier . 1911 magazine springs run on the tight side .
We shoot 115gr or 124gr for service pistol exclusively. If the 1911 won't feed those from the first trigger squeeze it has setup/fit issues. One exception on a new pistol is that they occasionally won't go into battery when slingshot and that can/will happen regardless of bullet weight as the lockup and slide/frame may be a little too much to overcome for the weaker spring. Other than a courtesy bump at the beginning, no action needed. That level of fit isn't present in a production or probably even semi-custom. IMO, "break in" is used as an excuse for poor fitting and lack of attention by the manufacturer. There are almost no parts fit on a RO, MIM drop in. My full custom bullseye guns are built to at or below 1.25" 50 yard groups and no break in was required. I took my pistol from the Gunsmith and competed with it and won the same day. BTW, we only load 5 rounds in a magazine. No need to load more. We actually avoid it to increase accuracy and reliability. If the slide/frame is excessively tight it can be racked by hand without having to go through the cost of ammunition. Simply disassemble the pistol so only the bare slide and frame are together and check for improperly machined surfaces, which can be addressed. Touch up or have the manufacture correct it and reassemble.

I use this as a guide when I inspect a 1911. Others are well beyond my level of knowledge I'm sure, but I find it a great reference.

A Day With A Master Gunsmith by Chip Lohman, Shooting Sports USA 2009
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/ssusa_200906/index.php?startid=16

I just got word from the gunsmith. He said my RO needs a new barrel.
Production barrels are typically drop in, Dan Wesson does a "semi-drop in" however, good barrels like Colt/Springfield/etc. can often be welded up with great results, but your gunsmiths may not want to exert the effort as a new barrel may be faster and they have a greater probability of good performance. The root problem with most production/semi-custom 9mm barrels is that they're a compromise. The twist rate faster to stabilize heavy bullets, but the range/target weight is much lighter. If you want superb accuracy you will want a KKM slow twist barrel, which is a 1-32 vice the 1-16 or even faster, and have it custom reamed with a gentle transition (leade angle). Hornady 115 gr or 124 gr XTP or HAP in the same weights are terrific. Power Pistol and N-330 are two great consistent powders for 9mm.

Here are a couple of test targets from Bullseye Gunsmiths, if you need contact information shoot me a PM.

10 shots at 50 yards (Caspian Full Custom) by David Sams from a HEG rest



25 shots at 50 yards (Accurized Les Baer) by Jerry Keefer from a Ransom Rest

 

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JHN :
A great wealth of knowledge thank you ... I learn something new .:)
 

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That's some outstanding accuracy! I do have the option of having a custom barrel installed if I pay the difference. Wilson or Nighthawk was suggested.
 

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That's some outstanding accuracy! I do have the option of having a custom barrel installed if I pay the difference. Wilson or Nighthawk was suggested.
Neither. KKM slow twist. Barrel installation is as important as the barrel itself.
A Guild Gunsmith is a great way to do quality control, a gunsmith who focuses on Bullseye and is a guild gunsmith is even better ;)
 

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he didn't say. i do know that the lugs fit was loose. the bushing is tight. not sure about your other question.
Tight in the frame and/or tight on the barrel?

If your guy can't explain and demonstrate what's wrong with your current barrel and how a new one will fix it, I'd get a second opinion.
 

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Which bullets will the 1:32 twist stabilize? How fast/slow are they going to get that kind of accuracy?I mainly shoot IPSC style so i don't know if a 1:32 twist would be practical.
 

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Tight in the frame and/or tight on the barrel?

If your guy can't explain and demonstrate what's wrong with your current barrel and how a new one will fix it, I'd get a second opinion.
It all seems tight to me except the lugs. It's not that he couldn't explain. I never asked and he didn't offer the details. I should have asked.
 

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I just got word that my new r-officer 9mm target is on its way back, can't wait ! The rep that took care of me (Mike) told me they tuned the extracter and the mag release and put a new barrel and bushing in it as well as tested it for function and accuracy, should be here Monday, I'm hoping for the best and can't wait to take it to the range.
 

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In full custom Bullseye pistols, they'll often "settle" as the barrels and pistol are shot, fouling smooths the bore and the groups go down a bit. Parts are fit and allowed to break in vice get sloppy.
Production barrels are often pretty rough. If they're too rough, they'll foul excessively and hamper accuracy.
Generally we don't clean until accuracy degrades, and then only enough to get it back. Rimfire barrels rarely get cleaned, for both focus is on the chamber with a brush 1 size above the bore.
The RO like the other production 1911s, really don't have much fitting at all. Part of the wonder of MIM and the costs savings. I have one, love it, so not a slam, just the reality of the current production methods. Even some semi-custom shops, like Colt were not allowed to actually fit an oversized slide to a frame until recently, but with the Manager laid off, not sure what the status is.




Production pistols go to warranty for repair by roughly the same group who built it, not the custom shop, unless it was a custom pistol or your custom work had issues. "NM" is simply a stamp for marketing in the majority of companies and there is no industry standard for min group size from a rest at a specific range with a type of ammo, etc. In 45ACP the RO can be quite accurate with a little work, but the 45 is a very forging round to build around. The 9mm, not so much. At 25 yards and less you can get some very respectable near 1" groups from most that we test. At 50 things change dramatically. 9mm starts supersonic and needs to stay that way. Transitioning from super to subsonic is an accuracy killer.



We shoot 115gr or 124gr for service pistol exclusively. If the 1911 won't feed those from the first trigger squeeze it has setup/fit issues. One exception on a new pistol is that they occasionally won't go into battery when slingshot and that can/will happen regardless of bullet weight as the lockup and slide/frame may be a little too much to overcome for the weaker spring. Other than a courtesy bump at the beginning, no action needed. That level of fit isn't present in a production or probably even semi-custom. IMO, "break in" is used as an excuse for poor fitting and lack of attention by the manufacturer. There are almost no parts fit on a RO, MIM drop in. My full custom bullseye guns are built to at or below 1.25" 50 yard groups and no break in was required. I took my pistol from the Gunsmith and competed with it and won the same day. BTW, we only load 5 rounds in a magazine. No need to load more. We actually avoid it to increase accuracy and reliability. If the slide/frame is excessively tight it can be racked by hand without having to go through the cost of ammunition. Simply disassemble the pistol so only the bare slide and frame are together and check for improperly machined surfaces, which can be addressed. Touch up or have the manufacture correct it and reassemble.

I use this as a guide when I inspect a 1911. Others are well beyond my level of knowledge I'm sure, but I find it a great reference.

A Day With A Master Gunsmith by Chip Lohman, Shooting Sports USA 2009
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/ssusa_200906/index.php?startid=16



Production barrels are typically drop in, Dan Wesson does a "semi-drop in" however, good barrels like Colt/Springfield/etc. can often be welded up with great results, but your gunsmiths may not want to exert the effort as a new barrel may be faster and they have a greater probability of good performance. The root problem with most production/semi-custom 9mm barrels is that they're a compromise. The twist rate faster to stabilize heavy bullets, but the range/target weight is much lighter. If you want superb accuracy you will want a KKM slow twist barrel, which is a 1-32 vice the 1-16 or even faster, and have it custom reamed with a gentle transition (leade angle). Hornady 115 gr or 124 gr XTP or HAP in the same weights are terrific. Power Pistol and N-330 are two great consistent powders for 9mm.

Here are a couple of test targets from Bullseye Gunsmiths, if you need contact information shoot me a PM.

10 shots at 50 yards (Caspian Full Custom) by David Sams from a HEG rest



25 shots at 50 yards (Accurized Les Baer) by Jerry Keefer from a Ransom Rest

Have you found any accurate subsonic loads with 147 grain bullets?
 

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I had the same issue with my RO 9mm. It was embarrassing on the range. It was only with winchester white box ammo. No problem since I changed.
 

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So a question I have is why does different ammo affect the accuracy ? I know Springfield prefers that you use the 124g rounds in these guns for best accuracy but I'd just like to know what effects the accuracy and why. What about the heavier rounds affects the gun enough to throw the accuracy off ? Thanks in advance...
 

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The rate of twist is the only thing that I can think of that would differentiate accuracy differences involving strictly different bullet weights (lengths in terms of bullet contact with the bore; realizing that heavier bullets generally means longer lengths, everything else being equal).
 
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