[mdcalvert]

I have contacted a couple of Internet vendors who claim to be selling "real USGI surplus pistol magazines." One vendor wrote to me that he had personally picked up his supply of magazines from the Anniston Army Depot. He gave me the following information from the packaging of his magazines:

Outer wrapped in clear plastic
Inner wrapped in a anti-corrosion, brown paper
The brown paper was marked as having been made by Ludlow Corporation
The inner brown wrap had a white paper label that was marked as follows

19200-
ASSY 5508694
MFR 30745

The floor plate of the magazine is marked with exactly the same information as on the white label.

I have called the DRMO at Anniston and they do not believe these magazines are real USGI surplus.

Their initial observation is based on the fact that their guidelines for handling firearms parts, including magazines, is that they are categorized as "Code D" which means that any part that is no longer required for the government's needs must be De-Mil'd prior to disposal. That applies to ALL parts that they sell. Accordingly, they do not believe it is likely that any person has bought any "in the wrap" parts from Anniston or any other DRMO facility.

Their second factual observation is that the marking of the white label and the magazine floor plate appears to be invalid. The "real" USGI parts labels will always have either an NSN or (older) MSN number on the label. The National Stock Number (previously called the MilStrip or Military Stock Number) would be proceeded by either NSN or MSN and the number would be constructed in such a way that the first four digits related to the NSN Catalog category number for small arms (less than 20MM).

Just in case, the DRMO is checking other sources to see if there is any possibility that these magazines were sold by any DRMO source. They are also researching to see if the numbers on the label and floor plate might be partial numbers of a legitimate NSN description. In that instance, it is a possibility that the magazines may have been manufactured for submission under a DoD acquisition contract and then rejected by DoD because the vendor incorrectly marked the items. Such things have happened in the past. DRMO is also going to check to see if any known contract manufacturer has been assigned the MFR code number of 30745.

I will post the follow up from Anniston here when it arrives. In the meantime, I suggest we all mark time on buyng any of these mags.


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MDCalvert
Oak Ridge, TN

 

[gyp_c]

I thought that # sounded familiar...You need to go here and check this out...It's been up and available for a couple months...

http://www.ammoman.com/webstore_45.htm

Let us know what the armory says about these...I'll bet the ammoman would be interested too...

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>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<

MWLWN LABE!

 

[mdcalvert]

Gyp-c // Thanks for the steer. I'd say the Ammoman's ad item is the same as the items being offered by the two vendors I mentioned. Interesting. I may call Ammoman tomorrow to see where they acquired their stock.

I also checked back with a Marine Armorer friend and he is going to check his base unit's inventory to see what markings are on the current unissued magazine stock. I'll post his reply data.

Part of me hopes these will turn out to be legitimate USGI. Where else can you find an unused, decent quality magazine for ball ammo for $8.00?

Thanks again,

------------------
MDCalvert
Oak Ridge, TN

 

[para-EDGe]

Originally posted by gyp_c:
I thought that # sounded familiar...You need to go here and check this out...It's been up and available for a couple months...

http://www.ammoman.com/webstore_45.htm

Let us know what the armory says about these...I'll bet the ammoman would be interested too...

hey I've got ten of those I bought from Ammoman...I'll have to try them and see if they work. I hope so and I hope they're legit.
Thanks for the heads up..both of you.

EDG

 

[gyp_c]

Well...I know the ammoman is legit... You just never know how far up the tree things start to shake out though...
I agree...should be very interesting...Holmes

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>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<

MWLWN LABE!

 

[col132]

Thanks for the information. Good to know one way or the other.

 

[Walking Point]

I don't have a magazine in front of me, but the number, or at least the general look of the numbers sounds right. I'd think any cheap fakes would just have a plain base since faking USGI mags would be a lot like faking $1 bills.

 

[mdcalvert]

I called Anniston DRMO this afternoon and spoke with the individual who has handled most of the listings for material under the 1005 FSC Code. He has been there for two years and has not had any large sales of magazines. However, he does know that pistol magazines have been sold in small quantities (200-300) at Anniston and at other DRMO sites. He gave me the website to look at DRMS sales: http://www/drms.dla.mil

I went there and found that the number on the bottom of the magazine in question is a VALID partial NSN. The whole NSN is:
1005-00-5508694. The nomenclature for the item is: Magazine, Cartridge, Steel, Phosphate Coated, 7 Cartridge Capacity

I also discovered a site to identify the other numbers on the bottom of the magazine. They are generally referred to as "Cage Codes." The site is: http://www.dlis.dla.mil/CAGESearch

19200 = US Army Armaments Reasearch and Development Command, New Jersey (NOTE: This code formerly assigned to US Frankfort Arsenal)

30745 = Mason-Rust Co., Pittsburgh, PA 15200

Mason-Rust Company is no longer in business. It was absorbed into Rust Engineering in the 80's and no longer exists as a separate entity.

Based on all of the above, the good news is that, YES, these are real USGI surplus items.

As for the DRMO Disposal Codes, it turns out that Code B items can be disposed of intact if they pose "no significant military effect."

I hope I didn't worry anyone too much, but my initial call to Anniston (yesterday) sounded like we had some bogus stuff in the marketplace.

One other point. The DRMO person I spoke with today said that some of the pistol magazines he has sold had NO MARKINGS. Boy, if it wasn't hard enough to identify GI surplus items!

FYI, the sales of all 1005 FSC items (Small Arms Less Than 30 MM), can be monitored at the DRMS site I mentioned above. Right now, there are 117 magazines with the same NSN for sale at DRMO Okinawa. I called and left a voice mail there and sent them an email to see how difficult it will be to try to get those items packed and mailed back to the US. Other DRMO sites are located all over the US (and around the world) and they are the source of all legitimate USGI surplus items.

One sad point, the DRMO at Anniston is located on the same Army Base as the Anniston Army Depot. You may know that most of the military weapons/small arms that are declared surplus and put out for disposal are sent to Anniston for disposition. My call today confirmed that ALL small arms, and ALL small arms parts are being ground up by "Cap'n Crunch." I had an experience several years ago where I discovered that the DoD has declared all of those dangerous .22 caliber assault rifles, i.e., Springfield M1922, M1922M1 and M1922M2, as dangerous weapons and had ground them up at Anniston. They also shredded whole steel drums of unused spare parts for these rifles. Thank God for our old DCM (now CMP) because they stuck their necks out and demanded the cessation of destruction of the other .22 caliber training rifles in the system. Today, new, unissued, still in the wrap, parts for the balance of all of the US military firearms are being routinely grounded into small particles and sold as scrap. Reason -- The denial of spare parts will eventually eliminate the existence of functional military surplus or duplicate firearms. Makes sense to me. I think I will call Fred Thompson's office and ask him if it makes sense to him. Maybe a letter to Mr. Bush might help too.

Thanks all,

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MDCalvert
Oak Ridge, TN

 

[para-EDGe]

Originally posted by mdcalvert:
[snip]
Thanks all,

No, Thank you! Great info there.

I hope you here good news from Japan

Also a shame the gov.org demils things like that

EDG

 

[Walking Point]

I picked up a couple of unmarked .45 mags about 20 years ago from our arms room. One looked prety much standard, but was unmarked, while the other had "stepped" feed lips and a very nice blued finish.

 

[kopfschmerzen]

these mags are still around. I just picked up trhee for about $20 on Gunbroker. it's good to know they're real, as they look very nice. haven't had a chance to test them yet, though.

 

[Roamer1911]

Sorry to say this guys but I bought a few, tried them last month and they have all been utter crap. The feed angle for the top round is way too shallow, constant FTFs from the first 3 rounds, the springs seem very heavy too with dodgy spot welds on the base plates. They are not parked, they are blued. The thing is, who would try and make 'fake' GI mags? Perhaps these are just from a bad contract hence never issued and now 'disposed of'.

 

[kevins_garage]

...I'd think any cheap fakes would just have a plain base since faking USGI mags would be a lot like faking $1 bills.

...The thing is, who would try and make 'fake' GI mags? Perhaps these are just from a bad contract hence never issued and now 'disposed of'.

There are certain locales that factor heavily in the "reproduction" of such items. When they can essentially make a magazine for 10-20 cents that they can sell for a few dollars that then sells for $5-8 dollars at retail, they will do so since there is a demand for them. Just look at how much stuff you can find at a dollar store that costs $3-5 or more at other stores. There is still a decent profit to be made selling the items for $1.

I don't know what is worse though, cheap re-pops or junk surplus from a bad contract. It's always a good idea to function test mags when you buy them or very shortly thereafter, rather than just putting them away for a rainy day. It certainly doesn't hurt to buy from reputable sources either, rather than Commando Joe at the traveling circus.

 

[StuG]

are these the same ones?

 

[ghf]

Thats them.
30745.
Started with 10 from Ammoman.com. Now have none that work. Most have been thrown away.
They are out of spec/soft. It takes several loading and firings, but eventually they deform and eventually will not work. Become progressively harder to lock in mag well and will not eject when empty. Sometimes lock up slide.

I have read that they are from a rejected govt contract.

 

[dfariswheel]

It wasn't the DCM or CMP that demanded the stopping of Cap'n Crunch.

The DCM was a military run organization and they didn't demand anything. They were TOLD what to do.

It was the Clinton administration that started the destruction.

It was the much maligned NRA that made a stink about the destruction of rifles, and pressured members of congress to stop it.

The only reason you're able to buy CMP firearms, ammo, and accessories is entirely due to the NRA.

 

[NonConformist]

It wasn't the DCM or CMP that demanded the stopping of Cap'n Crunch.

The DCM was a military run organization and they didn't demand anything. They were TOLD what to do.

It was the Clinton administration that started the destruction.

It was the much maligned NRA that made a stink about the destruction of rifles, and pressured members of congress to stop it.

The only reason you're able to buy CMP firearms, ammo, and accessories is entirely due to the NRA.

Which is WHY it is STILL worthwhile to be a member, even though they dont always push hard enough on some issues IMO

 

[tinfinger]

I rec'd four "30745" mags from sportsmans guide a couple of weeks ago. They had alot of sharp edges and came in a ziploc baggie with no tags, wrap or anything, but...they do not like StuG's photo. They are light grey parkerized, with a noticeable color change at the top of the mag which I suspect may be due to heat treatment of that area. Unlike other reported experiences, all the witness holes are in the proper location. The rounds seem to sit "low" in the feed lips, but they did function OK during a brief test.

I happened to notice tonight that the rounds also sit "low" in a mid-seventies Colt factory mag.

I only mention this as some have stated that not all 30745 mags are necessarily bogus. Having said that, though, I would prefer not buy any such mags in the future. The ones I got may be OK, but the worksmanship wasn't impressive.

 

[baker1425]

Part of me hopes these will turn out to be legitimate USGI. Where else can you find an unused, decent quality magazine for ball ammo for $8.00?



I hate to plug McCormick here, but I just got blued eight rounders for 12.00 with tax locally. I got tired of buying those "surplus" mags at gunshows only to have them fail, too. Never had a problem with the McCormicks and I have used the heck out of them.

my .02