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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I think my recoil spring may be shot in my new Kimber. It is the only 1911 style gun I own so I don't have anything to compare it to.

I just noticed today that when I press check it, pulling the slide back enough to feel the round with a finger, when I let the slide go, it doesn't return fully. Is this the norm?

I have 850 rounds of light loads (200SWC) mostly, as I stated in a previous post, I am goeing to order new springs for it this week.

Anyway, just curious?
Later...

PS, I also just noticed that the extractor's tension has changed quite a bit since it was new. It comes no where near haveing enough tension to hold a round between it and the breech face.
 

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With that many rounds through it the spring should still be more than strong enough to return the slide to battery. The fact that you are also having extractor troubles causes me to think you may want to have that baby looked at by a good smith to be sure you don't have some more serious problems.
 

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The 4" Kimbers are to be changed every 800 rounds. :mad:
I assume your chamber is clean?
 

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Try it with you hand off the grip safety to see if its the push rod. If it still does it, I would check the extractor tension and make sure the top of the chamber is clean and maybe polish it a little. If it is the push rod, it may need more of a rounded top.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks all, I read your sugestions and am now really lost.

I haven't experienced many failures to eject, my biggest concern is how the gun, with a loaded mag, will not lock up without a push after a press check. Actually, I didn't notice this till after the last range session where I had a dozen or so failures to return. I cleaned the gun as soon as I got home from the range, this is when I started checking things out. The slide stops right where the barrel hood starts to rise. Does your spring sound like it is binding when you rack the slide back past the half way mark? I wish I had checked the gun out more when it was new or had another to compare it to. I just called the local gun shop, they don't have any replacement springs, guess I'll just have to wait till I get a new one from bnells.

Now for the ectractor. When I first got the gun, I also bought snap caps. Doing the normal guy thing checking things out I learned right off that a 1911 extractor set up is nothing like what I was use to. If I didn't rack the slide with enough velocity, the round/cap would still be sitting there between the breach face and extractor, I would have to remove the mag and shake the heck out of the pistal to get the round to fall thru the mag well. This is how it should be right?

I read the link explaning how to check/adjust the extractor. I don't quite understand. The rim of a .45 is aprox .o42 thick. Are they saying that from the breech face to the inside hook of the extractor is only .o42ish? In order for the hook of the extractor to hold a loaded round to the slide with a couple pounds of pressure there is 0 clearance right? If this is the case, mine is screwed cause I have twice that, I'm guessing .075.

Can someone explain the ectractor set up without makeing me feel any dumber than I feel right now.

Sorry so long,
Thanks again,
Later...
 

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Read the link above for extractor tuning.

If a loaded round sticks in the chamber, and it takes considerable shaking to get it to fall free, I'd guess your chamber is too tight. That would certainly cause the problems after your press-check. It's too hard to push the round into the chamber without the full force of the slide. A loaded cartridge should drop in and out easily.
 

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Try a shake test with a real round with the slide off. If the extractor doesn't hold it, you will need to add more tension. If the round slips when you press check it, then it isn't lined up to go back into the chamber and could be "catching" on the rim of the cartridge. The tension is provided by the bottom or back wall (depending on how you look at it) of the slot so the width of the slot in the extractor will be greater than the thickness of the rim of the cartridge.....yours sounds OK to me, so check the tension.

I missed the part about the SWC in your first post. My experience with SWC (200 gr. West Coast Bullets) was that the crimp and OAL are critical to getting them to feed in my full size Kimber. I couldn't get a feed by hand cycling with 1.240 OAL and .471 crimp but they hand fed fine at 1.250 and .469. I also polished the top of the chamber and that helped since the rim of the cartridge was sticking on the top of the chamber. 1000 grit sandpaper cured that (but don't get carried away.)

I would still make sure it isn't the Series 2 by doing a press check without pushing on the grip safety so the push rod stays down.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Kruzr, thanks for the replys, I tried what you stated and it didn't change?

The only practical thing I can think of that has started all my worrying is the gun was dirty from my 200 rounds of SWC(200gr w/ 4.9gr W231) After 200 rounds of the SWC, I attempted to shoot 50 rounds of Federal American Eagle 230gr FMJ's with numerous failures to return. When I cleaned the gun everything looked normal, no excessive lead. I'm guessing that the Pro Carry SS II if properly lubed (FP-10 by the instructions) should shoot reliably for a 2 hour range session, yes?

I'm resisting stepping out the back door and running a few mags thru it just to put my mind at ease.

Later guyes...
 

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kinda off the topic but kinda interesting.

the other week a guy came in with a 4" Kimber and he said that the gun is jamming. so we look at it and the spring was just super weak. so when we opened it we found that the person had a "gunsmith" do some work on it. what he did was cut off five coils on the recoil spring then stick it back in there. when you put it back together the spring was not even under tension at all.

thought it was funny, but man poor little Kimber.
 

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GSS said:
Kruzr, thanks for the replys, I tried what you stated and it didn't change?
Which did you try..........the shake test with the slide and round only? If it held, then it probably isn't the extractor. If you mean the press check without the GS held in, then it isn't the push rod (Series 2) either. It could still be the spring or the chamber top. When it happens, does the round look like it is stopping with the case mouth part way into the hood?

Figuring whats wrong is a trial and error type of thing with guns. You may have to wait for the spring to make sure. FWIW, it doesn't hurt to polish the chamber anyway. I've also found that W231 isn't the cleanest of powders.....but you should be able to shoot more than 200 rounds.

(Edited to eliminate the Series 2 as a cause.)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Kruzr, tried both, the grip safety didn't change anything.

As for the ectractor, I'm lost. There is absolutley no part of my extractor that "grips" any part of a loaded round. With the slide in hand, I slide a loaded round under the extractor, the round is just flopping around. It doesn't hold the round flat against the breach face.

I read the above link, can someone explain to me where the 1.5 to 2 lb "grip" is. I must be missing something! I know the extractor is a simple mechanical item, when I see the light, I'll prob be embarrassed.

Thanks,
Later...
 

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That's the force to pull a casing out of the hook. You need a trigger gauge to measure that. Read through Bill Wilson's article on m1911.org again and try it. Sounds like you need more tension. It can wobble a little with a loaded round but shouldn't fall out. It doesn't have to be real tight against the breech, but it should stay under the hook. If you were to look at the extractor from the top of the gun, the wide part of the hook cut (side, when looking down on it) and the other side of the slide is where the tension is applied. The tension is between the hook (not the tip) and the rounded cut out on the left side of the slide in front of the breech (when looking from the back of the gun.) In other words side to side pressure. Strip the slide and bend the extractor a little as shown in the Wilson article. It doesn't take much bending to get more tension. It may take a few times to get it right until you get used to doing it and your hand becomes "calibrated". ;) Hope this helps.

http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm
 

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Kimber extractors are notorious for losing tension. It's possible that the rim of the case falling downward during the press check is the cause of the FTRB problem. Other than that, it could be a tight lockup. I've handled some new Kimbers that without ammo in them would actually require a nudge from the thumb to fully return to battery. You could hear the "click" of lockup. They would definitely require some shooting to break in, or some gentle polishing of the lugs.

A dirty chamber is another likely possibility. My Goldmatch starts to occasionally stick 1/16" from battery after ~250 rounds. A quick wipe of the chamber is all it takes to stop the problem. When I pull the stuck cartridge out (sometimes requiring hitting the slide on the table) it'll have a ring of fouling around it. I've also noticed some lead in my chamber after shooting lead swc's, those could definitely lead to chambering problems with large sized round (I've never had a problem related to it through as my reloads seem to be a little smaller in diamter than the Speer Lawman I first noticed the dirty chamber problem with).

The extractor tension isn't the round being held back against the breach face, the rim is being pinched between the extractor and the ledge on the left side of the breachface (right side if you're looking at the breach face). The extractor should have to flex a little bit to allow the rim to get up under it, hence the tension.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I think we are getting somewhere now, you guyes have hit on 2 things.

1) The lock up of my Kimber. When there is no mag in the gun, if you ease the slide forward, it wants to stop right when the barrel starts to lock up, you can hear it click. If I gently pull the slide back 1/4" or so, and let it go, sometimes it will return, sometimes not. I didn't notice this when it was new, but I really didn't pay a whole lot of attention to details, I just wanted to shoot her. I ordered #22 springs from Wolf last night. I'm not expecting this to be a fix, but at least I will have something to compare to. By the way my factory "spring" is 3 1/4" long when relaxed.( recoil spring that is!)

2) The ectractor. If I hold my slide vertical, with the breach faceing the sky, slide a round under the extractor, there is at least .025 gap between any part of the rim of the round and the hook. Bending it to get grip in not going to get me any grip. The extractor needs to be slid to the rear of the slide .025 or so to even get it close. Something here is definantly amiss.

Any more thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Something else I just noticed after reading the post "Any ideas on this Series II failure?" someone mentioned extractor "clock" I looked at mine, and looking at the rear of the slide, the straight vertical cut of the ectractor is not sitting straight it is at say 12:30. I can rotate it easily with my finger a couple degrees, whats the deal. Is it broke?

Thanks

Ps, I have only field striped this gun for cleaning, if any thing is off, I don't think I caused it.
 

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GSS said:
I think we are getting somewhere now, you guyes have hit on 2 things.

2) The ectractor. If I hold my slide vertical, with the breach faceing the sky, slide a round under the extractor, there is at least .025 gap between any part of the rim of the round and the hook. Bending it to get grip in not going to get me any grip. The extractor needs to be slid to the rear of the slide .025 or so to even get it close. Something here is definantly amiss.

Any more thoughts?
Again, the tension isn't going to be between any part of the hook and the rim. Tension is side to side. So long as the hook is under the rim, it's doing it's job. You need to bend it sideways as shown in the Wilson article to get tension. Bending it to get tension on it could also stop the clocking since it will be "bound" tighter in the channel. You need to pull it out of the slide and bend it to add tension.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I thought about this all day today, and finally I have seen the light. DuH!!!

Sorry you guyes had to take me to school on this, I read the articles over and over and it never clicked.

Kruzr, if you had put that "side to side" statement it there earlier, I think I "might" have caught on sooner. I was trying to get the hook to hold the round not the side of the ectractor pushing the round aginst the side of the slide. It's cool to learn something new, now if I could just learn without draging myself thru the mud to get there.

Thanks again guyes.
 
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