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Discussion Starter #1
Okay guys, if I were to upgrade from a Pro Carry to either of the above, which would be your first choice and why?

It will be a primary carry gun and I shoot Speer GDT 200+P HP


Thanks
-Nick
 

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Nick

For a primary carry or one and only gun, Pro Eclipse. No Question about it.

Why? The Eclipse has a stainless steel frame while the CDP is aluminum. The aluminum frame will not stand up to shooting a lot of +P, or hotter than standard ammo. Kimber claims they have fired 20,000 rounds through an aluminum frame, but there is one thread on this board where a Kimber aluminum frame has cracked at 9,000 rounds (1,000 +P and and 8,000 Fiocchi, which is loaded hotter than standard). Now to be completely up front on this, the owner of this pistol did say that Kimber was replacing the frame under warranty. But since you mentioned that your standard load was a +P, I would suggest staying with a steel frame.

I hope this helps.
 

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St8_Shot, thanks for the info. I'm glad you mentioned the frame fact, because I totally missed it.

WSI in Bellevue had a Pro Eclipse II for sale last weekend, but I missed out. They sold it a day later. Today, I went ahead and ordered one anyway. I should be able to pick it up in a few days hopefully. I'm going to trade my Pro-Carry in for it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Pro-Carry, but the PEII has all of the features I want to have on my PC, so why not upgrade. If I did it myself, then it'd probalby cost me the same $$$ - if not more anyway.


Thanks
-Nick
 

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I just bought the Pro Eclipse II about a month ago. The Eclipse is finer than the CDP, but the night sights have been very problematic (i.e. going dim suddenly after only a few hundred rounds.) The good news is that I sent the slide in on Monday and I got it back Friday of the same week. Not to shabby. Everything is bright and crisp again, no complaints (unless you count having to have it serviced in the first place.)
 

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Hi Nick. Cascade Pawn is selling a Pro Eclipse on Auction Arms so they must have one in their store. I guess you already ordered but Federal Way Guns has a pretty good supply of 45's in general and usualy very good prices. I love that Pro Eclipse but just bought a Gold Match so I gotta wait a while damn't.
 

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DoubleD

How many rounds have you ran down range with your Gold Match? Is it feeding everything? My Gold Match and a few others I have seen have been tempermental about FJM ammo.

Str8_Shot
 

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Str8. I reload all my ammo and the only ftf's I've had were related to my crimps I believe. One thing I found that is diferent then my other guns is my Gold Match has a very tight chamber and if I can't easily slide a round into my case gauge it's not going to like feeding in the Kimber. Once I got the Lee factory crimp die and keep the crimp under .470 at the case mouth it eats it all. Hollow points, swc's rn's, fmj, lead etc.
I think the tight chamber is what contributes to the accuracy. I've got about 1500 rounds through it. I also put a 18 pound Wolf recoil spring in and I think that helps as well. Good luck.
 

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"but there is one thread on this board where a Kimber aluminum frame has cracked..."

Oh that one, huh. And then there is the one that did this...and the one that did that.



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Gargoyle

I understand your point. A lot of things are claimed to be posted. So I found the thread I was refering too. The link is below.
http://www.1911forum.com/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000942.html

While one occurance does not make a trend, it is something to think about, when it is your money on the line.

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Str8_Shot

The best handgun for self defense, is the one you have with you.

[This message has been edited by Str8_Shot (edited 10-30-2001).]
 

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Originally posted by Str8_Shot:
Nick
[...]The Eclipse has a stainless steel frame while the CDP is aluminum. The aluminum frame will not stand up to shooting a lot of +P, or hotter than standard ammo. Kimber claims they have fired 20,000 rounds through an aluminum frame, but there is one thread on this board where a Kimber aluminum frame has cracked at 9,000 rounds (1,000 +P and and 8,000 Fiocchi, which is loaded hotter than standard.
I read the thread. The owner had only 20 +P rounds through it. It is obviously a defective frame. I have seen defective steel parts also. I have seen stainless slides crack in half because they weren't treated properly (Its on the SA forum). I have seen Wilson's Bulletproof extractors break.

Quite honestly, all this ranting and raving about modern aluminum and MIM/cast parts is just plain bunk! They use MIM/cast and aluminum parts on aircraft and automobiles in place of steel because it is too heavy for the application. These parts, when manufactured correctly, have the same, or 95% the same strength of steel at a greatly reduced weight.

Any part, steel or not, can have a defect. If aluminum was so bad, or MIM was so bad, or Casting was so bad, there would be product liability lawsuits up the wazoo and there wouldn't be any aluminum parts or MIM parts or Cast parts for anything.

People say/have said the same thing about polymer frames and Glocks also. Its just bull.

If you want steel frames and forged parts, by all means, go ahead get them. But don't give any BS "He said/She said" without statistical proof because you need to justify your spending more money.
 

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Originally posted by Gun Nut:
I read the thread. The owner had only 20 +P rounds through it. It is obviously a defective frame. I have seen defective steel parts also. I have seen stainless slides crack in half because they weren't treated properly (Its on the SA forum). I have seen Wilson's Bulletproof extractors break.

Quite honestly, all this ranting and raving about modern aluminum and MIM/cast parts is just plain bunk! They use MIM/cast and aluminum parts on aircraft and automobiles in place of steel because it is too heavy for the application. These parts, when manufactured correctly, have the same, or 95% the same strength of steel at a greatly reduced weight.

Any part, steel or not, can have a defect. If aluminum was so bad, or MIM was so bad, or Casting was so bad, there would be product liability lawsuits up the wazoo and there wouldn't be any aluminum parts or MIM parts or Cast parts for anything.

People say/have said the same thing about polymer frames and Glocks also. Its just bull.

If you want steel frames and forged parts, by all means, go ahead get them. But don't give any BS "He said/She said" without statistical proof because you need to justify your spending more money.
Umm...what he said!




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Someone post an Eclipse pic and let him look side by side.

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Gun Nut

You are correct, I was not correct in the number of +P rounds that were fired. Credit that to my poor memory.

Concerning if the frame in this case was defective, I have to agree with you. I expect any firearm to stand up to shooting a lot of standard ammuntion. Though if you read the post again you will notice that only the Federal American Eagle and SWC loads were standard velocity, or "cool", loads.

Since Fiocchi and Hydra-Shock ammo is loaded hotter than standard, being selective about the frame material in order to shoot a lot of +P ammo is someting to be considered.

Str8_Shot
 

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Originally posted by Str8_Shot:
Gun Nut

You are correct, I was not correct in the number of +P rounds that were fired. Credit that to my poor memory.

[...]

Since Fiocchi and Hydra-Shock ammo is loaded hotter than standard, being selective about the frame material in order to shoot a lot of +P ammo is someting to be considered.

Str8_Shot
Str8, don't get me wrong on my post. I have read many of your posts and we have a meeting of the minds on many things.

I have seen Anti-Aluminum/MIM/Cast threads on many of the forums here. But quite honestly, if you look at the posts with parts breakage, they seem to effect forged steel parts as much as the others (I haven't actually kept count). There was one thread on this forum where someone traded a Kimber on a Wilson only to have the "Bullet Proof" slide stop break. And even Wilson's uses some MIM parts unless you spend $2000 for the gun.

Anyway, my point really is, if you want lighter weight because you carry all the time, modern aluminum frames are certainly up to the task for a "lifetime" of wear. You definately can not go wrong with the CDP series of guns. They are just simply beautiful and a steal at $879, which is what we can get them for here.

I also agree that if weight was not a concern for me, and/or if I was going to use my gun solely as a competition/match or home defense gun, I would certainly consider a steel frame. The Eclipse series will fit that bill nicely.

My personal choice would be to go with one of each! Why only buy one when you can get two at twice the price?


[This message has been edited by Gun Nut (edited 10-31-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Gun Nut (edited 10-31-2001).]
 

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Hey Gargoyle...that is a real nice scratch you have on your gun there where you sliced it with your slide stop...I bet a few profane words were uttered right after you did that!

In response to the original question, I have a Pro Carry SLE (same as Pro Carry HD) and would not trade it for either the CDP or the Eclipse. Those two are fancy-boy guns and are of no interest to me. It is all a matter of taste. Handle em all and shoot what you can, and buy the one you like, not the one somebody else likes.
 

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Originally posted by Str8_Shot:
Nick

For a primary carry or one and only gun, Pro Eclipse. No Question about it.

Why? The Eclipse has a stainless steel frame while the CDP is aluminum. The aluminum frame will not stand up to shooting a lot of +P, or hotter than standard ammo. Kimber claims they have fired 20,000 rounds through an aluminum frame, but there is one thread on this board where a Kimber aluminum frame has cracked at 9,000 rounds (1,000 +P and and 8,000 Fiocchi, which is loaded hotter than standard). Now to be completely up front on this, the owner of this pistol did say that Kimber was replacing the frame under warranty. But since you mentioned that your standard load was a +P, I would suggest staying with a steel frame.

I hope this helps.
I agree. My Eclipse, Has over a thousand rounds through it. My CDP only a couple hundred. And it's got wear marks. My Eclipse shows no wear. GO with the ECLIPSE
 
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