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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all,

I have been reading this thread, "hardball for self defense" and I must say that I am confused. Which is best for self-defense and stopping the bad guys? For all of you law enforcement officers and government agents, I would like to take a brief poll of what you carry in your weapons.

1. What is the manufacture of your ammunition?

2. Do you use hardball or hollow points?

3. How heavy of bullets do you use?

4. Do you use a premium type of ammunition such as the Federal Hydra-Shoks?

I would like to get an idea of what you fellows use in your weapons that use them on a daily basis to protect your own lives and the lives of others. What is good for you is good for me.

Also, I would like to know if their has been any studies done to determine how much hollow points will penetrate if they do expand as anticipated. Does anyone have any facts and figures? Are their any known issues of hollow point bullets blowing apart into pieces upon hitting something hard such as bone and thus preventing them from adequately penetrating?

I looked at some of the links that Frank Sottile posted from the Firearms Tactical Institute but their results seem to be contraversial.

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hollow points have much better stopping power, however, theey ted to jam alot more often. The argument pretty much sais, Better to have ball ammo that shoots than hollow points that dont. It is all going to be dependent on your particular gun. shoot ALOT with both and see for your self. By alot I dont mean one box either.
 

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1) Les Baer or Springfield
2) Hollow
3) 230 grain
4) Rem Golden Sabre or Federal Hydra Shok

It is not true that today's Hollow Point ammunition in a quality, modern, properly set up semi-auto handgun causes malfunctions. If a handgun that fits that description is malfunctioning with hollow point ammunition, then there is something definitely wrong with it and it needs to be fixed muy pronto! Either that or you have received some faulty ammo from the factory. Usually this is attributal to the OAL of the cartridge.

In the FWIW department: I have seen cases (lot numbers) of quality factory Hard Ball ammo cause numerous malfunctions in weapons that when shot with the duty load of factory Hollow Points, functioned perfectly. Why? Because of QC problems from the ammo factory. It often times has nothing to do with the type of bullet when looking at malfunctions, but rather the overall specs of the ammo when it was assembled.

Whatever weapon/ammo combination you choose, test it thoroughly before carrying. I would go no less than several hundred rounds of my chosen ammo before I was comfortable.



[This message has been edited by LW McVay (edited 09-18-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks McVay for the response. I appreciate the information.

For any future post to this thread, lets try and shy away from the issues of feeding and reliability. I am aware that any choice of ammunition should be tested in my weapon for both reliability and accuracy. I am trying to narrow the focus of this thread to strictly the performance of the bullet when it interacts with the target.
 

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Originally posted by Colt shooter:
1. What is the manufacture of your ammunition?
Federal

2. Do you use hardball or hollow points?
Hollowpoints

3. How heavy of bullets do you use?
115 gr +p+
4. Do you use a premium type of ammunition such as the Federal Hydra-Shoks?
Hi-Shoks
Remember......shot placement is the key. Doesn't matter one bit if you shoot someone with a 230 gr hydra and miss as opposed to shooting them with a 200 gr. swc.




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Originally posted by Colt shooter:
I am trying to narrow the focus of this thread to strictly the performance of the bullet when it interacts with the target.

Unfortunately, it can't be narrowed with any degree of certainty. A handgun is a poor choice for stopping power in any configuration or caliber. To think otherwise is very dangerous to your health.

LW is actually correct in the thinking that a reliable performing round in your pistol is always going to be better than the best expanding/penetrating/one-stop-killing round that misfeeds regularily. Shot placement is more important that bullet configuration - always has been, always will be. Find a quality load that your GUN likes, and practice.
 

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Thanks Gravity for confirming "shot placement" importance. I was typing the very same thing at the very same time obviously!

[This message has been edited by shane45-1911 (edited 09-18-2001).]
 

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1. Federal or Winchester
2. Hardball
3. 230 gr.
4. Usually Premium Match Full Metal Jacket, but occasionally I will use Federal American Eagle or Winchester USA.

As a patrol deputy, I wanted a round that would penetrate through a car door druing a car stop, or through several layers of heavy clothing in the winter, and still penetrate a human body deeply enough to reach vital organs.

I also like a bullet that performs in a predictable fashion. Yes, JHPs both penetrate deeper and expand more reliably than they used to, but they still can't be depended upon to perform the same way every time.

Of course, there was also the reliablility factor, but you didn't want to hear about that.

As a full time process server, I no longer make a lot of car stops, so I've considered going to a JHP load, but I still want to be able to penetrate the front door or a wall of a residence (assuming I know for sure my attacker is standing behind a certain spot), so I'm still staying with hardball as my primary load. I have to admit, though, I'm in the testing process with Federal's Expanding Full Metal Jacket loads, and I'm waiting to see how it reacts in a meat-and-bone target (an injured white tail deer, for example) before adopting it myself, and recommending it for issue to our deputies. I keep a spare magazine of 45s in my car for testing, I've passed out 40s among our patrol deputies, and I gave some 9mms to a friend of mine who is the team leader for a SWAT team. I want to know how it performs in an animal, but I don't want it used in a situation where an officer's (or anyone else's) life depends on its performance until it's been tested.

Different circumstances might well change my preference. If I were a Court Securty Officer or School Resource Officer, where I would be most likely to use my sidearm in a confined area crowded with people, my 45 would be loaded with Winchester's 185 gr Silvertip hollow points, to reduce worries about over penetration.

Assuming one has a choice in the matter, each person should choose a load that best suits his or her needs. When ammunition is chosen for general issue, the choice must be based on the anticipated needs of the officers who will be using it. Our deputies who carry 9mms and 40s are issued premium hollowpoints, (those of us who carry 45s currently have to supply our own) but if an officer does not like or trust the load he is issued, he may buy ammo he prefers, as long as it is a name brand factory load that funcitons well in his or her handgun.

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1. Winchester (but others would do)
2. +P JHP (Ranger Talon)- but ball would do.
3. 230 gr.
4. They probably consider it "premium" but normal loads will do.

Hope this helps.

Jim Higginbotham
 

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Originally posted by Colt shooter:
Hello all,

I have been reading this thread, "hardball for self defense" and I must say that I am confused. Which is best for self-defense and stopping the bad guys?
I am not a pro, but I just had this conversation with a deputy sheriff.
He carries a Glock 22, in .40S&W
He is authorized to carry Hydra-Shok's or Triton. He carries Triton 155gr Hi-Vel.
His opinion is that if the JHP round plugs, then the bullet basically becomes a FMJ round and that doesn't worry him.

(updated 9/21/01)
After talking with my friend again, he corrected me. He said he carries Federal Hydra-Shok hollow points. Not Triton Hi-Vel.


[This message has been edited by Soujurn (edited 09-21-2001).]
 

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Originally posted by shane45-1911:
Thanks Gravity for confirming "shot placement" importance. I was typing the very same thing at the very same time obviously!

[This message has been edited by shane45-1911 (edited 09-18-2001).]
Ohhh.....you must be faster grasshopper.





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