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Discussion Starter #1
Afternoon guys,


I tried a search and while there are some threads that touch on the subject, wasn't able to come up with a conclusive answer.

Is the Armor Tuff being used on CURRENT builds actually Cerakote or a form of Cerakote being used by WC? Or is it in fact a completely proprietary coating?

I understand the similarities between the two. I'm just wondering if Wilson is using Cerakote or a modified version of it or if their Armor Tuff is a totally separate thing. My prior experiences with Cerakote left me a little disappointed. I don't think it was a finish issue, more of an applicator issue. It still leaves room for doubt, at least for me personally.

Having said that, I arrive at my next question. I was initially advised Wilson would do the wide Vickers style slide serrations on my Protector Professional build. Unfortunately, I was more recently advised that they will NOT do them on any other guns as they are exclusive to the Vickers gun only. No worries, where there's a will there's a way. Since the wide serrations were kind of a big deal to me, I contacted Alchemy Custom and will be sending the gun to them to have every other serration removed. This should give me the same finished product that you see on the Vickers gun.

Since the gun will need to be refinished (it's a stainless slide ordered in black Armor Tuff), would I be better off ordering the slide unfinished and send it to WC for Armor Tuff coating after it gets back from Alchemy? Or would I be fine just keeping the order as is (entire gun black Armor Tuff'd) and sending it for refinishing at WC after the serrations are modified?

I guess my question is will refinishing Armor Tuff a second time after original finishing look as nicely done as it did the first time? Are there any downsides to this?

I'd rather keep things simple and not change the order from it's current status, especially since there were a few changes already made. I'd like to avoid any confusion.

Thoughts? Any info would be much appreciated.


Tspeis
 

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Let us refinish the slide. The black coating we are currently using is not something Rob can order from any of the usual vendors. There is no downside to a refinish.
 

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Why spec a stainless slide and AT it? Just curious because the AT will wear more quickly off of stainless as compared to phosphated carbon steel.

Reverse two-tone would look sweet. But if you want a black gun and a finish that will stay on there I would keep the slide carbon.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Let us refinish the slide. The black coating we are currently using is not something Rob can order from any of the usual vendors. There is no downside to a refinish.
Thank you for the info. I appreciate the response. That puts that concern to rest.

If you don't mind my asking, is the current Armor Tuff actually Cerakote or some form of it? Or is it an entirely separate (although similar to the Cerakote) proprietary coating?

I've seen some speculation that WC began using Cerakote instead of the Armor Tuff found on older guns. I'm not asking for specific details and I wouldn't expect any manufacturer to divulge such. I'm just curious if it's a different finish that WC is using or if it's rebranded Cerakote or a form of Cerakote modified just for WC.

Looking forward to any info you might be able to offer. Thanks again.

Why spec a stainless slide and AT it? Just curious because the AT will wear more quickly off of stainless as compared to phosphated carbon steel.

Reverse two-tone would look sweet. But if you want a black gun and a finish that will stay on there I would keep the slide carbon.
Because I wanted the base material to be more corrosion resistant than carbon steel in the event the finish becomes worn down to bare metal. I don't plan on sending it back for frequent finishing and it will be a work gun, so it will see pretty heavy use and daily carry. In time, the finish will wear off whether it's stainless or carbon steel underneath.


Tspeis
 

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Don't know if this helps but Rob at Alchemy did my Colt in their version of Bearcoat and I prefer it to the AT on my Wilson . Why not just order the gun in the white and let Rob finish it after doing the metal work ?
 

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Don't know if this helps but Rob at Alchemy did my Colt in their version of Bearcoat and I prefer it to the AT on my Wilson . Why not just order the gun in the white and let Rob finish it after doing the metal work ?
We won't ship a carbon steel gun in the white. The OP can order a stainless gun that way though :)
 

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We won't ship a carbon steel gun in the white.
Although I understand the reasons, you wouldn't do it even if you know that the gun is sent to professionals like ACW?
 

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Although I understand the reasons, you wouldn't do it even if you know that the gun is sent to professionals like ACW?
It poses a corrosion issue. What if the owner decides to not have the gun immediately refinished, sits in a safe and rusts almost immediately? It has happened in the past and caused a lot of unhappiness.

We get lots of guns sold on the secondary market sent back to us for "Warranty/Service Policy" work that have been refinished by other vendors-then we have to give the customer bad news on why they are now on the hook for almost all service issues. Improper refinish is the root of many problems.

Sometimes "no means no" for a good reason. We don't have long standing policies in place just to annoy customers. We have broken the rules a few time on this in the past and its just not worth it.

If you want a special coating, order the gun in stainless.
 

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Does Wilson honor warranty work to pistols that have been refinished at another place, like Hard Chrome?
 

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Does Wilson honor warranty work to pistols that have been refinished at another place, like Hard Chrome?
Typically no but keep in mind we don't have a warranty-we have a service policy and someone else finishing, grinding, fitting on your Wilson generally voids it. It is also at our discretion. We have NO authorized external refinishers at this time.

For example:

Hard chrome done improperly can create hydrogen embrittlement and cause parts to break prematurely. Same with black nitride (Melonite).

Improper cerakoting/gunkoting can leave you with a non-functional paperweight. Same with Melonite/Black Nitride. I have a flawless gun that was ruined by bad Melonite. Absolutely ruined. I do not think any amount of work will make it right. Should I send it back to the gunsmith that built it and expect him to repair it?

Lots to ponder. Our custom gunsmithing shop has very quick turnaround right now.

If you absolutely have to have an outside service or feature we don't offer-that is your perogative but do it at your own risk.
 

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I didn't think so. For me that would be the reason not to go with an outside vendor for a finish. Thanks for the clarification.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Typically no but keep in mind we don't have a warranty-we have a service policy and someone else finishing, grinding, fitting on your Wilson generally voids it. It is also at our discretion. We have NO authorized external refinishers at this time.

For example:

Hard chrome done improperly can create hydrogen embrittlement and cause parts to break prematurely. Same with black nitride (Melonite).

Improper cerakoting/gunkoting can leave you with a non-functional paperweight. Same with Melonite/Black Nitride. I have a flawless gun that was ruined by bad Melonite. Absolutely ruined. I do not think any amount of work will make it right. Should I send it back to the gunsmith that built it and expect him to repair it?

Lots to ponder. Our custom gunsmithing shop has very quick turnaround right now.

If you absolutely have to have an outside service or feature we don't offer-that is your perogative but do it at your own risk.
Since I am only having slide serrations modified, would I still be good to go for service repair if something unrelated to the serration work failed?

For example, I can understand Wilson not honoring repair work on my slide if it cracked and was somehow directly related to the aftermarket serration work I had done. However, if my sear were to fail as a result of poor heat treating at the factory or something like that, would you guys still warranty such repairs as long as they're unrelated to the aftermarket work?


Tspeis
 

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I'm sure they would. Even if your slide did crack, depending on where the crack came from and the cause, they would probably even take care of that. Gunsmiths and manufacturers are very interested in dissecting and figuring out why things happened so that they can make improvements where needed.

Since I am only having slide serrations modified, would I still be good to go for service repair if something unrelated to the serration work failed?

For example, I can understand Wilson not honoring repair work on my slide if it cracked and was somehow directly related to the aftermarket serration work I had done. However, if my sear were to fail as a result of poor heat treating at the factory or something like that, would you guys still warranty such repairs as long as they're unrelated to the aftermarket work?


Tspeis
 

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However, if my sear were to fail as a result of poor heat treating at the factory or something like that, would you guys still warranty such repairs as long as they're unrelated to the aftermarket work?


Tspeis
Yes. We use pretty reasonable judgement when dealing with service issues.
 

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Yes. We use pretty reasonable judgement when dealing with service issues.
I can certainly vouch for Wilson Combat's judgement and customer service. In 1994 Wilson Combat customized a Colt 1991 which I used as my duty weapon. A decade or so later the Colt frame developed a hair line crack. Wilson repaired it without issue.
https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=486010

This why I carry a Wilson as my life depends on the weapon working... as does my son's who is carrying a CQB for his duty weapon.

JW
 

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Why not find a gunsmith that's affiliated with BodyCote and have it Tungsten Diamond Like Carbon (W DLC) which is a PVD finish that's better than any "painted" surface coating...
 
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