[oldcolt]

I have a new pistol with 1,000 rds through it. It was and still is quite tight. On occasion (every 25 rnds or so), I have to thumb the slide to seat the gun in full battery(it stops a milimeter or 2 short of battery). Usually I can tell this is happening because I am unable to depress the trigger and fire the next round. However, on several occasions the hammer has fallen to half-cock. After thumbing the slide into battery and recocking the hammer, it fires without problem. I cannot duplicate this event with an unloaded gun. The hammer will not fall no matter how far the gun is out of battery. Is this a problem or is the sear not being fully disengaged because the weapon isn't in full battery? What should I do? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
oldcolt

------------------

 

[donw]

oldcolt,

sounds as though you have an extremely tight chamber. If you're shooting reloads, or different brands of ammo, it could be slightly oversize rounds, or the thicker brass which some mfrs. use. If your extractor is overly tensioned, this could also be a contributing cause. The reason the hammer has fallen to half-cock on some occasions is probably because the disconnector was slightly depressed, and it slipped off of the sear and the hammer landed on the half cock notch, rather than falling fully down. The hammer should never fall when the slide is out of battery by more than about an 1/8 inch. If it ever does, get it to a 'smith or the manufacturer right away, cause you've got major problems.

------------------
Don Williams www.theactionworks.com www.pickagripcom

 

[Metal Smith]

Hi oldcolt, is this a custom gun?

------------------
Metal Smith

The only thing I know for sure is what I can measure!
NRA Life Member

 

[Ned Christiansen]

Any 1911 going through my shop gets a reamer in the chamber. Everybody is making them too tight, no idea why. Whatever miniscule gain in accuracy there may be (and I think none), it is no way worth it, at least to the guy using his 1911 as a defensive pistol. My reamer is just an off-the-shelf Clymer, not especially big, but 90% of the barrels I put it into, I take some metal out, either toward the deep end and/or in the leade. Each of these barrels was causing or would cause a reliability problem. Taking it out to dimensions that ensure reliability is not detrimental to accuracy that I can tell. My most recently-completed project gave me 1 1/4 at 25 yards repeatedly. I dunno, maybe with a tight chamber that could have been 1 1/8, but who cares? That extrapolates to groups 1/2" tighter at 100 yards! Who cares! Reliability is the only thing that matters, until the gun is reliable.... then we can think about accuracy.

I believe your problem is either a slightly tight chamber, or slightly pudgy ammo, or maybe a bit of both.

 

[harley45]

I guess I'd rather have slightly pudgy ammo vs. a slightly pudgy wife.
On a serious note though how deep do you take the reamer?



[This message has been edited by harley45 (edited 09-26-2001).]

 

[Bob Brown]

I totally agree with the advice you've been given and have only one thing to add. I don't know what kind of crimp you use, but it may be worthwhile to check for short cases. If the mouth of that case hasn't had all the bell removed, it'll do just what you described.

 

[oldcolt]

Metal Smith,
The gun in question is a Baer Premier II with 1 1/2" 50 yd guarantee. I have only used factory ammo (Federal American Eagle and Winchester white-box). I suppose it could be a tight chamber to eke out the extra accuracy requirement. I don't know that is why I am seeking the advice of experts. The chamber is well polished and there are no burrs or irregularities. Is this a break-in issue to where it may take another 1,000 rnds (it has improved quite a bit with the first 1,000 rds)? Sorry for the bombardment, as I have lots of questions and no good answers.

------------------

 

[oldcolt]

I would also like to thank the other Pistolsmiths, who have offered their assistance in this matter.

oldcolt

------------------

 

[vincent]

In my opinion 1000 rounds is quite enough for a "break-in period" even for the extremely tight Les Baer line. If you are having problems with factory ball ammunition after 1000 rounds then I would give the Les Baer folks a call and let them make it right.

 

[Dave Sample]

Always nice to respond to one of your questions, Old Colt. I really like the answers you have been given so far. I don't think you have a problem.You have an exceptionaly tight, well built pistol that is set up like the old bullseye guns we use to do once on a while.That accuracy guarantee is BS of course, because there is too many varibles to make that claim. In who's hands and with what ammo. I would bet that the gun will break in soon. I do not build guns like Les or anyone else, for that matter, but I always took them to about 90% and let the 1911 and owner do the rest. As long as you don't carry it for self defense, I would give it more time and feed it more quality ammo. Let me know when it starts to run 100%.A self defense gun is another story. They are built very diferently.

 

[Metal Smith]

Hi old colt,
On a Les Baer gun I suspect it is locking-up TIGHT on the slide stop pin. This is to jam the gun TIGHT into battery for the accuracy, the "break-in" will peel the front frame rails up, allowing the slide to go freely into battery, the distance from the rear hood to the first locking lug could be also tight causing the slide not to go fully into battery. The chamber could also be tight. On the FBI guns, I beleive they have larger chambers.

I agree with Ned, I DON'T like tight chambers! And accuacy wise it won't shoot better on paper, good in theory, not better in the real world. I ream all my chambers above minimum spec, I alway get a little metal out of a factory barrel. The MOST accurate 45 I've ever fired had a jumbo chamber.

These are just a couple of problem you may have but we can't be sure till you look it over, take the recoil spring out and feel lock-up on the slide stop pin and feel it funtion.



------------------
Metal Smith

The only thing I know for sure is what I can measure!
NRA Life Member

 

[oldcolt]

Mr Sample,
Always good to hear kind words from a friend. I would have to agree with that the 1.5" guarantee at 50 yds is a moot point in my hands. I am a decent shot but that is FAR beyond my ability level.

I have a little more info that may be of some help. I removed the barrel and used unfired bullets and spent casings to see if the bore was overtight in any areas. Both inserted easily and somewhat loose they fell out when I tipped the barrel down. I don't know if this helps as I don't own a micrometer to check the inside diameter. With the gun empty, It will not seat into battery at times. If I press on the rear of the barrel hood, it locks right up (what I was trying to say earlier was I couldn't get the hammer to drop with the gun unloaded and just out of full battery. Reading my comments again I could see how that may have been misinterpreted) I do appreciate the replies and you extending your valuable time to help me.

------------------

 

[Metal Smith]

Hi oldcolt, I bet your barrel bushing is to tight and dragging the barrel forward to soon into battery.

------------------
Metal Smith

The only thing I know for sure is what I can measure!
NRA Life Member

 

[Bob Brown]

Old Colt mentioned pressing on the hood and it goes right into battery. I'll betcha a dime it's a tight slide stop pin fit.

 

[Dave Sample]

Pete and the others are all probably right on. All of the above would or could be the answer. To achieve that kind of accuracy things have to be as tight as they can be made to be.I. like the others , ream every chamber on every match barrel that leaves here.I also JB the link pin and lower and upper lugs and force the gun in and out of battery 100's of times until I can tip it forward without the recoil assembly in it, and it will go in and out of battery simply with the weight of the slide. This way, I know it will be reliable and fire every time I pull the trigger. Tip forward....ker-chunk.Tip backward.......ker-chunk. You are OK with this pistol. I think it will start running soon.I like Les and Co and have alot of respect for what they do. Give it some more time. You might want to try the JB Bore compound trick. It's non-imbedding and I use it alot for making tight things work. My best to you, Sir

 

[Ned Christiansen]

The Baers I have seen are indeed awfully tight. Accuracy guarantee or no, me, I'd have somebody loosen up the barrel fitting just a tad. Even if it were never to be used except for paper punching, it takes all the fun out of it, waiting for the next hangup. It's a little cloud hanging over your shooting cap. Totally reliable and accurate enough beats unreliable and theoretically incredible accuracy. No dis towards Les Baer, he built it with one thing in mind and some of us want more of the other thing.

 

[pistolwrench]

oldcolt,
I'll venture a step further than any of the previous posts.
1000rds is more than adequate for a 'break-in'.
I'd first contact Les Baer and see if he will 'adjust' the gun.
If not, Ned Christiansen, Don Williams, George Smith, Pete Single, Bob Hunter or Bob Brazos will be able to get your pistol 'up to speed' with little or no accuracy degradation.
Do not 'suffer in silence' with a less than reliable 1911. There are a handful of competent smiths here that would be happy to help you out.

Chuck

 

[Metal Smith]

Hi old colt,
Another thing that can aggravate your situation is the barrel not fitted in the center of the barrel channel. To check for this look for scuffmarks on top of the barrel chamber area, left from the slide retracting over the chamber area. The scuffmarks are common but should be concentric, check and see if the scuffs are favoring one side, most likely the side favoring the left i.e. the side opposite the port.

I had a Baer slide where the barrel channel has not centered with the bolt face or hood proper and bolt face location.

The upper locking where also cut offset in the slide, to check look at the sides of the upper locking lug cuts, each side should be cut approximately .015 deep, what you’ll see is one side about .010 and the other side .025 deep. When you go to fit a barrel in this offset slide the barrel will want to roll in the lugs, it will favor the one side of the channel and drag going up into battery (hence the scuff marks favoring the one side of the barrel) press down on the rear hood and it pop into battery.

To correct I’d buff the scuff marks with 180 grit aluminum oxide ribbon paper, buff cross ways like your shining your shoes for a few thousands till the scuff marks are removed and test for function, you may have to remove a little metal on the opposite side of the hood allow the barrel to move over a bit but this may lead to other problems


------------------
Metal Smith

The only thing I know for sure is what I can measure!
NRA Life Member

 

[oldcolt]

Gentlemen,
Thanks again for all of your comments. I just figured that you might like to see some resolution to the problem. Anyway, I took in in to a gunsmith that has done some work for me previously and these were the problems he identified and fixed.

Problem 1) Barrel bushing to barrel fit overly tight.
Problem 2) Barrel link incorrect size (too large).
Problem 3) Barrel fit slightly out of spec.

Now the gun works perfectly. I can't even purposely make it hang up. As I told him when I brought it in. It is as accurate as I could ever want, now make it reliable. By the way I didn't lose any accuracy as far as I can tell. Thanks again for your willingness to help.
oldcolt

------------------

 

[Dave Sample]

Delighted to see you problem solved , Old Colt. The only thing that bothers me is the link being over sized. I really thought they knew better than that. I know Fred Kart had to write them a book on how to fit barrels when they started, but the Prescott Kid did not take my class! A Wilson #3 link is hard to beat! I am glad you now have a very fine 1911. Hope all else is well with you. Please stay out of high buildings and airplanes until we talk again.