Questions About Colt 2

3653 Views 46 Replies 21 Participants Last post by dsk, Jun 11, 2001

Mark655

Discussion Starter · Jan 26, 2001

Mark655 here again, the other topic was full, so had to start a new one. Same thing folks, I work at the the plant, GF handguns, any question I can help people with, just ask. But remember I make guns not policy, so pls keep it on that level.

Will have a picture of the 1911A1 within the next three weeks or so, just finalized parkerized process today, first 50 start in the polishing department in the morning....

Mark

[This message has been edited by Mark655 (edited 02-14-2001).]

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col132

· #2 · Jan 26, 2001

Mark,

My dealer called me at home this afternoon (Thursday) and informed me that RSR Wholesale had just called him and wanted to know if he wanted one of two guns that they had just received from Colt. They told him it was a high polish stainless 38 super, I believe a Gov't model. Said it was new manufacture and produced by the Custom Shop. Dealer said his cost would be $650+ and he thought full retail would be $850+. Can you shed any light on this model? 1991A1 or XSE model, or what? Should arrive Monday or Tuesday of next week. I'm probably going to get it anyway, as I would like to have a 38 super Colt. Thanks.

westendg

· #3 · Jan 26, 2001

Sounds like it could be one of the EL series of Colt 38 Supers. These are produced in high polish blue or stainless and in limited quanitys out of the custom shop. How about it Mark? If it is one of these I would would like to know more about them. The $650 wholesale does sound kind of low for one of these though.
westendg

M1991A1

· #4 · Jan 26, 2001

I would like to know more about the "EL" series also. I've seen several of them, but all I know are that they are 38 Super Govn't models with a mexican theme to them. I was also told that they were distributed by Lew Horton. I assume the 38 Super caliber with the Mexican theme is because of how police/military use of the .45 forbids its use by civilians in that country. I've also always heard that Mexican 1911 shooters like to "dress up" their 1911s. But why was that theme even picked? Don't get me wrong, I like them. I was just wondering?

BTW...Are you guys going to produce a regular 38 Super chambering in something like the 1991 Series?

Thanks again!

------------------
"They all fall to hardball!"

[This message has been edited by M1991A1 (edited 01-25-2001).]

Paten

· #5 · Jan 26, 2001

There have been M1991A1's available in 38 Super for the last year. There are currently a couple available on Auction Arms and Gunbroker. Prices seem to range anywhere from $550-$650 on up. I personnally wouldn't pay over $550 for one of them. Too many people are selling Colts at a premium because of the rumor that they were going to stop commercial sales. Here is a link to one on Auction Arms that closes tomorrow: http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=1004177 . Currently, no one has bid on it and the minimum bid is $530. If you can get it at that price, it's a deal.

dsk

· #6 · Jan 26, 2001

I have to say, the prospect of a true GI M1911A1 replica is tempting. I remember Colt coming out with guns like the 7th US Cavalry SAA in the 70's, so it's within the realm of possibility. Just like a lot of people I was a bit disappointed when the M1991A1 came out to see that it was just a modern Series 80 with a matte finish, and with all the contemporary features like tall sights, lowered ejection port, and plastic parts. But then again I understand the concept behind it. It was more for economy than nostalgia, although the latter was good for sales.

Anyway, to be authentic I'd say the "new" M1911A1 needs to have the following characteristics: small ejection port, tiny sights, checkered controls, small thumb safety shelf, wide hammer, STEEL arched housing w/lanyard loop, steel checkered trigger, Colt's patent date rollmarks, and P proof and verified proof stampings. Also, the serial number should either be like the M1991A1's succeeding numbers or else resume the 7XXXXX with a prefix or suffix to identify it as new manufacture (wouldn't Mr. Huntington Beach have fun otherwise!). As for the inspector's initials, I consider them optional as they were applied by the Gov't and not by Colt. And yes, NO firing pin safety! Swartz safety, maybe.

Anyway, a few stipulations from a classic 1911 die-hard to "shoot for".

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3

M1991A1

· #7 · Jan 26, 2001

Hey dsk, what exactly is the Swartz safety? Also, Mark655 did say it would have the small sights. I forgot all about the original ejection port though. He also said it would have the checkered mag release, slide release, arched checkered mainspring housing (I'm sure it will be steel), the thumb safety I'm not sure about. He also said it would have the wide spur hammer. Your right though, we'll just have to wait and see.

------------------
"They all fall to hardball!"

ociebell

· #8 · Jan 27, 2001

Mark655
Your showing up here will be great for unshrouding the hearsay and rumors about Colt.
I have an enhanced 9x23. I'd be curious to know why Colt let go of this caliber, how many they actually made, and if they are going to try it again.
Also the news of the 1911A1 coming back has me slobbering. Cheez if they can do that how bout 1911 option too. How about Property of Your name in the same font and style of the original.

Also, just out of curiosity does the broaching machine you mentioned earlier cut the trigger ways? Or what kind of modern tooling is used to perform this operation.

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dsk

· #9 · Jan 27, 2001

The Swartz safety was developed in the late 1930's as a firing pin block device. It was similar to the current Series 80 design except that it was a simple plunger that worked off the grip safety instead of a complicated series of levers and plungers. Colt just started incorporating it into many of its commercial Gov't Models when war broke out. The existing commercial guns were bought up by the government, then restamped and parkerized. The Swartz safety parts were removed to restore the guns to mil-spec configuration. After the war ended, Colt for whatever reason didn't resume the use of the Swartz safety in their civilian line.

FirearmsPlus.FL

· #10 · Jan 27, 2001

Originally posted by dsk:
The Swartz safety was developed in the late 1930's as a firing pin block device. It was similar to the current Series 80 design except that it was a simple plunger that worked off the grip safety instead of a complicated series of levers and plungers. Colt just started incorporating it into many of its commercial Gov't Models when war broke out. The existing commercial guns were bought up by the government, then restamped and parkerized. The Swartz safety parts were removed to restore the guns to mil-spec configuration. After the war ended, Colt for whatever reason didn't resume the use of the Swartz safety in their civilian line.

This is also the firing pin block in use in the new Kimber "Series II" guns. I'd love to know why Colt didn't use it, but I doubt anyone would know anymore....

Mark655

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jan 28, 2001

This is a high polished stainless gun model #O2071ELC2 it is a 1991A1 from the Custom Shop, one roll mark on the the slide, saying Colt Custom, with double diamond cherry grips, again, no bells and whistels but it is a good shooter

Mark

Originally posted by col132:
Mark,

My dealer called me at home this afternoon (Thursday) and informed me that RSR Wholesale had just called him and wanted to know if he wanted one of two guns that they had just received from Colt. They told him it was a high polish stainless 38 super, I believe a Gov't model. Said it was new manufacture and produced by the Custom Shop. Dealer said his cost would be $650+ and he thought full retail would be $850+. Can you shed any light on this model? 1991A1 or XSE model, or what? Should arrive Monday or Tuesday of next week. I'm probably going to get it anyway, as I would like to have a 38 super Colt. Thanks.

Mark655

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jan 28, 2001

You are correct all of the EL series with the exception of the 2071ELC2 does have a mexican theme, every few months we make approx 370 guns of a different theme, some royal blue some stainless. Out of each series the last 20 guns are engraved, all in 38 super, great shooters, personally not my style but nice to have one. The moel for next month is another bright stainless with gold plated small parts.

Originally posted by M1991A1:
I would like to know more about the "EL" series also. I've seen several of them, but all I know are that they are 38 Super Govn't models with a mexican theme to them. I was also told that they were distributed by Lew Horton. I assume the 38 Super caliber with the Mexican theme is because of how police/military use of the .45 forbids its use by civilians in that country. I've also always heard that Mexican 1911 shooters like to "dress up" their 1911s. But why was that theme even picked? Don't get me wrong, I like them. I was just wondering?

BTW...Are you guys going to produce a regular 38 Super chambering in something like the 1991 Series?

Thanks again!

Mark655

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jan 28, 2001

Every detail you mentioned, even the gov't inspectors stamp is being replicated to include the original style plastic grips with no firing pin stop. Check some of the notes under the first quaestion about Colt.
I am trying to get fifty guns thru the system in February, I would suspect that 40 or 45 should be out there by the en of February, the first two go to the vault with the rest of collection, a couple for the General, and of course one for my desk

Originally posted by dsk:
I have to say, the prospect of a true GI M1911A1 replica is tempting. I remember Colt coming out with guns like the 7th US Cavalry SAA in the 70's, so it's within the realm of possibility. Just like a lot of people I was a bit disappointed when the M1991A1 came out to see that it was just a modern Series 80 with a matte finish, and with all the contemporary features like tall sights, lowered ejection port, and plastic parts. But then again I understand the concept behind it. It was more for economy than nostalgia, although the latter was good for sales.

Anyway, to be authentic I'd say the "new" M1911A1 needs to have the following characteristics: small ejection port, tiny sights, checkered controls, small thumb safety shelf, wide hammer, STEEL arched housing w/lanyard loop, steel checkered trigger, Colt's patent date rollmarks, and P proof and verified proof stampings. Also, the serial number should either be like the M1991A1's succeeding numbers or else resume the 7XXXXX with a prefix or suffix to identify it as new manufacture (wouldn't Mr. Huntington Beach have fun otherwise!). As for the inspector's initials, I consider them optional as they were applied by the Gov't and not by Colt. And yes, NO firing pin safety! Swartz safety, maybe.

Anyway, a few stipulations from a classic 1911 die-hard to "shoot for".

See less See more

Mark655

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jan 28, 2001

In the three years I have been there I think I have only seen one or two 9x23 guns, and I think they were in the used gun room. It is a great cartridge for seriuos compitition shooters, have seen a few race guns built and or tricked out in the custom shop. I don't think it will come any time soon unless a high demand is noted. I have no idea on how many were made, you could try calling customer service (860)236-6311 they should be able to hook you up with someone in Historical dept that caould answer your question. As far as the trigger way that is not broached but done on a CNC machine.

Mark

Originally posted by ociebell:
Mark655
Your showing up here will be great for unshrouding the hearsay and rumors about Colt.
I have an enhanced 9x23. I'd be curious to know why Colt let go of this caliber, how many they actually made, and if they are going to try it again.
Also the news of the 1911A1 coming back has me slobbering. Cheez if they can do that how bout 1911 option too. How about Property of Your name in the same font and style of the original.

Also, just out of curiosity does the broaching machine you mentioned earlier cut the trigger ways? Or what kind of modern tooling is used to perform this operation.

westendg

· #15 · Jan 28, 2001

Thanks alot Mark for info. on the "EL" series. I have four different models right now. One of them is a El Teniente, which is a Gold Cup. Could you tell me the specifics on this model also the year it was made. I think they are great looking guns, but they are coming too often to keep up with buying them all. Also they don't seem to be all that collectable. Again I think it is great having you on the site. Thanks
westendg

dsk

· #16 · Jan 28, 2001

As soon as you have the new M1911A1 in production please upload a few pics for all of your prospective buyers here. Maybe those on the 1911 forum should have the first grabs.

Anyway, I noticed the official Colt Website hasn't been updated in ages so I'm not counting on any new news from there.

[This message has been edited by dsk (edited 01-28-2001).]

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col132

· #17 · Jan 30, 2001

Well, I picked up my Colt Custom 38 super today from my dealer, and to say the least, it is stunning. Came in a white Colt Custom Shop shipping carton and two piece blue Custom Shop box. Serial number is ELCENxxxx. To say this is a polished stainless 1991A1 in 38 super would be an understatement. Very classy. Colt Custom on left side of slide, nothing on right side. Colt PT Firearms Co and serial number on right side of frame. 3 dot fixed sights, polished steel mainspring housing and in my opinion the best trigger ever made for a Colt, polished long 1911 style, very classic lines with the straight gripping grooves and spur hammer, everything buffed to a very high (no scratches or scuff marks) polish finish, topped of with double diamond wood grips. Gave $795 for it, so it is still in the shooting price range for me. Dropped in a Wilson Commander hammer and a drop in Wilson beavertail, and it makes one fine looking current Colt manufacture 38 super. As you can tell, I'm pretty excited with it and I haven't even popped a cap yet. Just thrilled that Colt is still making guns like this for a very reasonable price. Had my dealer call RSR today to see if they had another one, or anything else in 38 super, and no luck. Now if I could just find a 1991A1 38 super to trade on......

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MILE HIGH

· #18 · Jan 30, 2001

Shortly after I bought my gold cup national match I started seeing gold cup trophy's , the national match is not listed on the web sight, has the nm been replaced or do you still make them, I think the trophy is a custom shop gun, but how do they compare to the nm.

225ACP

· #19 · Jan 30, 2001

Mark655 did Colt get rid of all there proto-type pistols? Like the 1909's. Also what is the rumors of Colt increasing production. I just made that up, wishful thinking I guess. Anyway keep the faith and I'll buy them and support NRA. So the kids can grow up and talk about the cool Colt auto they bought made 150 yrs. ago.

225ACP

· #20 · Jan 30, 2001

MILE HIGH I know the answer to your question. The National Match was renamed the Trophy Match in 1997. It is the exact same in all aspects as the series 80 National Matches made after 1992. But I could be incorrect.

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