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Just wondering whatever combo's people are using in their 1911's?
I'm running a stock SA TRP with 230 FMJ in front of 5.6gr of HP38, was wondering if increasing the recoil spring weight would help with less muzzle flip for a quicker follow up shots when shooting IDPA and USPSA? I'm going to be switching to VV N310 before much longer (got 2lbs of it for christmas, love my kids!!). Also the stock recoil spring is just about at 3K rounds on it and thats usually when I swap mine. All thoughts welcome!! Do have a Wilson GI guide rod and flatwire spring that I could swap to that I had bought for my safe queen Colt that hasn't been used....
 

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Getting your load right can help a lot, but the crazy part is not everybody likes the same load. Some people like heavy bullets (i.e. 230 gr) with fast burning powders for the perceived soft "push" that load can give you, but other people (myself included) prefer the snappier recoil of a 200 gr SWC with fast powder.

Once you got your load set up, try experimenting with different weight recoil springs. This video is a pretty good resource for what you're looking for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3UVLm2GajI

Believe it or not, most guns are over-sprung for the 170-175 PF loads we're shooting. Like Tim mentioned, 14 lbs is pretty common for 170-ish PF loads. I've played around with 14 and 12.5 lb springs over the years and currently use a 13 lb spring that I change about every 3K rounds.

Do you ever practice Bill Drills? Firing 6 rnds into a target at 7 yds and keeping all shots in the A or -0 zone is a great way to practice tracking the front sight and is the drill I use to figure out which spring to use with a particular load. Essentially what it works out to is getting the subsequent shots off quickly is dependent on how quickly you can reacquire your front sight during recoil. The right load and spring can help with this, but teaching yourself to track the front sight during recoil is the 'skill' side of the equation.
 

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I've found the solution for me is to run a flat bottom firing pin stop, standard 16 lb recoil spring, and 170 - 175 PF load (230gr Bear Creek RN, 4.9gr W231, 1.250" COAL). The link below is a slow motion video of me shooting this configuration. The muzzle is back on target very quickly.

http://youtu.be/ZQ3ML_7KuW4
 

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I was on another thread and heard a flat bottom firing pin stop helped him as well. Why would a flat bottom stop help? Impressive recoil control too by the way.
 

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I run two .45s, a 5" Tactical in L10 and a .45 Trojan in SS.
I use 16# RS and 17# MS in both.
I ran a lighter load at first ( 170 PF ) but settled on 5.2 grains of N320 or 4.9 grains of IMR 700X ( when I couldn't get N320 ) for 800 fps.
Learn the load and how the pistol reacts. Doubles will run under .20 splits with practice.
Flat bottom FP stop slows the recoil.
 

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I was on another thread and heard a flat bottom firing pin stop helped him as well. Why would a flat bottom stop help? Impressive recoil control too by the way.
It moves the fulcrum point of where the slide contacts the hammer. In effect it makes the slide harder to cock (like having a stronger main spring). It slows the slide down on the ejection stroke without speeding it up on the load stroke (the way a stronger recoil spring would).
 

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Great explanation, thank you. In another thread, folks are talking about running a heavier main spring to lower sensed recoil. Wouldn't a heavier main spring make sensed recoil heavier? Over coming a heavier slide trying to cock the hammer.
 

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Wouldn't a heavier main spring make sensed recoil heavier? Over coming a heavier slide trying to cock the hammer.
I'm sure some people do that, but when you get down to the nuances of managing recoil and tracking the front sight its all about feel. Personally I like to run a fairly light recoil and mainspring, but found that if I use too light of a mainspring I get light strikes that don't set the primer off.

Most of my major PF loads are in the 170-175 range, and I run an 18 lb mainspring in all of my guns. 13 lb recoil spring in a 5" .45 pistol, 13 lbs in a 5" .40SW pistol, and 12 lb in the 6" .40SW. In 9mm I run a 10 lb recoil spring.

Like I mentioned above, it takes some experimenting and the way I test springs is to do a series of Bill Drills and go with the combination of spring weight to the load that gives me the best drill time with all A-zone hits. The video I posted talks about muzzle dip with too heavy of a recoil spring, and I've found that if the spring is too light the gun feels "all over the place". Its like the proverbial Goldilocks when you have the "right" recoil spring installed and I can literally see the front sight bouncing up and down and the gun returns to the same point of aim without me needing to do too much correction to get back on target.

As far as mainspring, I run the lightest weight spring that is still 100% reliable -which for me is an 18 lbs MS. Some people can run lighter ones, but I suspect they are also running extended or lightened firing pins or use Federal primers.
 

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Recoil control is also greatly benefited by a good grip. Get that support hand in contact with the side of the stocks and cock it forward. The pistol will torque less. I'd also recommend doing exercises to strengthen your grip, as that will also greatly reduce muzzle rise (check out Bob Vogel...the guy can close a 200lb grip trainer and he has almost zero muzzle rise when he shoots). If you really clamp down with that support hand, you'll see benefit to both your trigger control and your recoil control.
Just my .02
:)
 

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Recoil control

I watched the video from Cindyles, and he does have good recoil control in his slow motion video.....thanks for sharing.

My only criticism is the way he cleared his gun......sticking a magazine between the fingers of his support hand, and pulling the slide back by grabbing the front of the slide close to the muzzle may not be the best approach.....complacency could lead to an accident.....

I prefer to first place my empty or partially filled mag either in my pouch or pocket, then grasp the slide from the rear cocking serrations to "unload and show clear" I don't like to manipulate the slide with a live round in the chamber while holding on to a magazine then pulling the slide back with my fingers near the muzzle....but maybe that is just me....!:)
 

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I watched the video from Cindyles, and he does have good recoil control in his slow motion video.....thanks for sharing.

My only criticism is the way he cleared his gun......sticking a magazine between the fingers of his support hand, and pulling the slide back by grabbing the front of the slide close to the muzzle may not be the best approach.....complacency could lead to an accident.....

I prefer to first place my empty or partially filled mag either in my pouch or pocket, then grasp the slide from the rear cocking serrations to "unload and show clear" I don't like to manipulate the slide with a live round in the chamber while holding on to a magazine then pulling the slide back with my fingers near the muzzle....but maybe that is just me....!:)
Stick that hand in front of the muzzle in USPSA and ya going home
 

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For the OP, how quick are your splits now? If you're already routinely shooting in .2-.3 range, then a lighter recoil spring may help. If you're shooting .5 splits on a 10-yard target, then you need to practice and work on your grip and seeing the sights lift.

I find that I adjust pretty quickly to a different recoil spring. If I go drastically lighter, then the 2nd-6th shots of the first bill drill end up high, but the 2nd bill drill I've adjusted my grip and things go where they're supposed to. Same if I switch to a heavier spring, but the followup shots go low as the stronger spring causes more muzzle dip when the slide slams forward. Subsequent strings get adjusted.

I found 14lb recoil spring to be the best combo for me, running 230gr plated bullets with 4.1 gr of clays. At a 7 yard target, the sights never even really lift all the way out of the a-zone, so I just need to keep watching them and pull the trigger when appropriate. Usually ends up being .22-.23 splits, but If I pay attention to my grip they can drop to .18-.19.
 

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I watched the video from Cindyles, and he does have good recoil control in his slow motion video.....thanks for sharing.

My only criticism is the way he cleared his gun......sticking a magazine between the fingers of his support hand, and pulling the slide back by grabbing the front of the slide close to the muzzle may not be the best approach.....complacency could lead to an accident.....

I prefer to first place my empty or partially filled mag either in my pouch or pocket, then grasp the slide from the rear cocking serrations to "unload and show clear" I don't like to manipulate the slide with a live round in the chamber while holding on to a magazine then pulling the slide back with my fingers near the muzzle....but maybe that is just me....!:)
Stick that hand in front of the muzzle in USPSA and ya going home
I have to admit it does look bad in the video. Thanks for calling my attention to it. I don't believe I muzzled myself, but it probably is just asking for trouble to unload that way.
 

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Your chosen handload (5.6 gr) might be able to be reduced somewhat, depending on the outdoor temps and currently attained velocities from your pistol ...

(I normally had 5.1 gr of 231 under a 230 gr FMJ chrono about 740 fps; this would naturally give a little less muzzle flip than the same bullet traveling 800-820 fps..)
 
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