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Hello,

Getting conflicting information from local RIA crowd...

My question: Does the Government Model .45 in the Tactical line include a ramped barrel?

I am aware the 10mm version does, but cannot find any info regarding .45 ACP offering via search here, on the Armscor site, or the web.

Any other user educated comments are welcomed also.

Thanks in advance,
ks
 

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10mm comes with Clark/Para/Lissner ramp. And is a Bull barrel
The rest of the line upt - Tactical or GI, in Any Length(some are bull barrel, rather than traditional bushing barrel) - .45, 9mm, .22TCM all comes with throated barrel
 

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What's the advantage of the Lissner ramp and bull bbl in 10mm? Why not make it like a Colt Delta elite a proven 10mm platform? Is the RIA system better?
 

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What's the advantage of the Lissner ramp and bull bbl in 10mm? Why not make it like a Colt Delta elite a proven 10mm platform? Is the RIA system better?
I think Delta is throated barrel, correct?
Ramped barrel provide more case support.
Bull barrel, in theory, provide just as tight lockup without bushing, which can wear out after many rounds.
Lissner ramp supposed be better than....

Meh...I'm too drunk to answer this.
May be when I sober up later.
 

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Mitty,

Happy New Year! Your are entitled to be drunk. Pretty good answer for being tanked! LOL.
Thanks
 

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Mitty,

Happy New Year! Your are entitled to be drunk. Pretty good answer for being tanked! LOL.
Thanks
Yes I was trashed! First new years eve I went out in some years:rock:

Anyway, to answer jmfc606's question lets talk about the difference between more common Wilson/Nowlin, Clark/Para and Clark/Para/Lissner can be easily seen below...



Difference between Wilson/Nowlin and Clark/Para is easy to notice.
They both require a machining the channel in to frame, and they both provide full case support.
See the pic


With .45ACP, the pressure(up to 140 MPa, or 21,000 psi according to SAAMI ) never gets high enough for this lack of total case support to become an issue.
But rounds like .38Super, and 10mm, it can build up a lot of pressure(258.55 MPa, or 37,500 psi for 10mm, and 251.66 MPa, or 36,500 psi for .38Super according to SAAMI. In comparison, .357Mag generates 241 MPa, or35,000 psi). Thus the most all 38Super and 10mm are ramped barrel to provide the case support.
(although I think Colt's .38Super gun is throated barrel, but someone told me once that the their throat angle is steeper, so more of the case is supported. Donno know the truth. Never seen Colt's 1911 in .38Super)
It also aids smoother feeding in to chamber as well(in someways. But that's whole another topic).

Delta Elites are manufactured with the traditional barrel/bushing set up. Colt Customer Service stated they had a lack of acceptable accuracy problem with the bull barrel setup(According to Wikipedia, anyway).

Bull barrel can provide tighter lock up for a lot longer, if done right - Meaning that the oversized bull barrel was fitted to the slide(as with bushing/barrel set up) that is.
I like my 10mm, But Bull barrel aren't fitted to the slide that well(you look from muzzle end, you can see that the there are gap between the barrel and slide along the top(and this is same with my CS with Bull barrel as well)
I've seen Kimber with bull barrel and they are little better, but not perfect either.
Only way your gonna get super tight lock up with bull barrel(like one in pic below, which I believe is done by Roger's presicion) would be to go with custom gun smith fitting...


And lastly, all of the above is MY understanding. And Im no gun smith. I just read a lot, and listen to people.
If anything above is relevant to you and your current/future prejusts, please double check/confirm my answers
 

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My apologies to the OP for possibly steering the topic from its intent. This is a great start to a question I've been pondering, though it may be more of a gunsmith forum question.

Would it be possible the use the same frame for a 45 and a 10mm. Each cartridge having its own slide, but with the 45 utilizing the traditional unramped barrel, and the 10mm using a ramped barrel?
 

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My apologies to the OP for possibly steering the topic from its intent. This is a great start to a question I've been pondering, though it may be more of a gunsmith forum question.

Would it be possible the use the same frame for a 45 and a 10mm. Each cartridge having its own slide, but with the 45 utilizing the traditional unramped barrel, and the 10mm using a ramped barrel?
You can use a 1911 frame for any calibers. Which ejector would you chose to use would determine what caliber that particular frame is going to be chambered for.

Slide is different. They are caliber specific, based on what bleech face is machined for.
Basically, there are 3 slides available. 9mm/38 super, 10mm/.40S&W/.357Sig, and .45ACP.
Along with 3 basic extractors that goes with them in 9mm/38Super, 10mm/.40S&W/.357Sig, and .45ACP.

And you can not use same frame for throadted barrel and ramped barrel, as frame are cut completely differently.
You can use a frame meant for throated barrel for Ramped barrel. It will require a machining, and its not reversible.
And you can not use the frame with Ramp cut for throated barrel

So for example, if you have a .45ACP GI frame cut for throated barrel, you can remove the ejector for .45ACP. Install a 9mm/38super ejector, slide, firing pin, along with specific FPS, appropriate recoil spring and throated 9mm barrel, and shoot 9mm.
And while your at, you can fit a .38 super barrel, and be able to convert between 9mm and .38Super with proper recoil spring(and all other wildcat cartridges like .22TCM, 9x23, 9×23mm Largo if there are someone making 1911 barrel for it)

same thing goes for 10mm. You can swap out with .40S&W barrel, or/and .357sig barrel.
Or you can convert 9mm frame, install proper ejector, and slide(along with internal) to shoot .45ACP

But you can't use ramped 10mm frame, and add throated .40S&W barrel and do conversions
 

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With .45ACP, the pressure(up to 140 MPa, or 21,000 psi according to SAAMI ) never gets high enough for this lack of total case support to become an issue.
But rounds like .38Super, and 10mm, it can build up a lot of pressure(258.55 MPa, or 37,500 psi for 10mm, and 251.66 MPa, or 36,500 psi for .38Super according to SAAMI. In comparison, .357Mag generates 241 MPa, or35,000 psi). Thus the most all 38Super and 10mm are ramped barrel to provide the case support.
(although I think Colt's .38Super gun is throated barrel, but someone told me once that the their throat angle is steeper, so more of the case is supported. Donno know the truth. Never seen Colt's 1911 in .38Super)
It also aids smoother feeding in to chamber as well(in someways. But that's whole another topic).

And lastly, all of the above is MY understanding. And Im no gun smith. I just read a lot, and listen to people.
If anything above is relevant to you and your current/future prejusts, please double check/confirm my answers
I'm sorry, this is BS and needs to be corrected.

The 45 ACP is just as subject to case blowout from excess pressure in the unsupported region as any other cartridge. You're reading way too much into the SAAMI specs.

No cartridge requires a ramped barrel, not the 38 Super, 10mm or even the 9X23, which operates at pressures up to 55,000 psi. The brass is (should be) built around expectations (SAAMI pressure limits) of the cartridge in typical gun designs. If the ramped if over-throated, any cartridge runs the risk of failure, even the 45 ACP.

The only time a ramped barrel is required is when SAAMI pressure limits are exceeded.
 

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Two reasons.

1. To provide case support. But this is completely different than REQUIRING case support. Some folks want it because they will push SAAMI pressure limits. The 38 Super is an excellent example. Competitors who load to Major powder factor want more case support to reduce/eliminate the chance of case blowout with their loads. Some gunpowders will actually allow people to load to Major within standard pressure limits. Most don't, especially with light weight bullets. If the gun has a ramped barrel/and or full case support with a standard barrel, they can push pressures to get the performance they want. Since many competitors who load the 38 Super to Major (and especially 9X21 and 9X19 to Major because they run even higher pressures) exceed standard pressure limits, full case support is required for safety. Also, early Glock .40 S&W pistols had too much unsupported region and were notorious for case blowouts. The .40 does not require full case support, but it does require sufficient case support (like all cartridges). The early Glock .40s didn't provide that. Another example is the 9X23 Winchester. Its brass was designed to hold extremely high pressure in an unsupported chamber. They did this by greatly thickening the case wall at the region that is unsupported. It operates at some of the highest pressures of any pistol cartridge (55,000 psi limit) yet is perfectly safe in an unsupported chamber. That said, that only applies to the original Winchester 9X23 brass. Starline's version, which they call 9X23 Comp, is not as thick-walled and does not handle 9X23-like pressures in an unsupported chamber. They run the risk of rupture unless they are down-loaded. Some folks want a ramped barrel that offers better case support for that extra margin of safety. That's okay, too. Even though it might not be necessary.

2. Enhanced feeding reliability. A single feed ramp can provide more reliable feeding than a two piece feed ramp. A 2-piece design can sometimes cause feeding malfunctions if it does not fit the frame properly (too close) and the edge of flatnose bullets can catch on the edge of the barrel entrance. But, with a 2-piece design, one can throat the barrel ramp very wide and this will accommodate wide flat nose bullets well or rounds that don't feed straight. But if the fit is correct and it is throated, it offers the widest entrance available. Most ramped barrels are not throated nearly as wide (some not at all) and flat nose bullets might fail in that circumstance if they catch the edge of the entrance. But a ramped barrel does not have that seam between the frame ramp and the barrel ramp so flat nose bullets won't fail to feed for that reason.

Further reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.40_S&W#Case_failure_reports
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9x23mm_Winchester
 
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