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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I think the rarist Colt 1911 or A1 would be the 1911 to A1 transitional or, 1911 lunchbox(not serialized) or, pre war National Match. Any agree or disagree? I don't know everything so any input is appreciated.
 

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I think the Singer A1's from WWII and the Canadian made 1911s from WWI (Forgot the name of the company?). I'm sure there's more, any ideas dsk?

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Singer was a WWII contractor and North American Arms Company was a contractor of WWI. Both are much rarer than most Colt 1911's. Both were also experimental manufacturers and are ultra valuable. I appreciate your input M1991A1.
 

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Back around 1984, I was working a
gun show in Baton Rouge. An older
gentleman approached me; said he had
a gun he wanted to sell. From a paper
bag he withdrew a government model Colt.
Said he had found it in a bunker in
Australia during WWII.

I didn't know much about 1911s but did know
the gun looked "odd". It appeared to be
a composite of 1911 and 1911A1 parts, but
the serial numbers matched. I offered him
three hundred dollars for it, which back then,was about the going rate for a shooter.

Shortly thereafter, another dealer spotted the gun. He returned with a buddy. It was
clear they wanted the Colt. They offered me
an even swap for a three digit, first year
production Winchester model 70 in .257
Roberts.I was pleased, they were pleased.
I've often wondered what that Colt transitional model really turned out to be
worth.
 

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It's possible the XS pistols are some of the rarest production-line Colts. I believe they were all made in the last half of 1999. Colt made some 9mm Commanders as prototypes for a General Officers Pistol; probably only a handful of those.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I don't have any Clawson books with me so I don't know exactly what to look for in a trnsitional. It sounds more like you had a mixmatch Military gun. Since Colt took extreme pride in fit and finish throughout and after WWII. And after too, but demand and mass production prevailed to sacrafice a basic product above one inspected and discarded if not meeting unsurpassed tolerances and finish. And thats why so many have survived. You can still find a 1912 Military or Commercial shooter that will outlive most of us. Can't argue with facts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
RickB so the XS was made in 1999? I thought they were made earlier than that. I know it is a missed line after the XSE came too. I don't care I want one now, since it was discontinued. How do you like your XS?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Sport I am back again to reply. My earlier statement is'nt intended to insult you or deny belief. I only am stating my understanding of the era and personnal experience with early Colt 1911's. I regard these things as the Ancient Egyptions viewed the Pyramids. To bad or to good being the Win 70 is a great firearm as well.
 

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There are plenty of "rare" Colt 1911s out there of many different variations. However only a few are actually sought-after since there were so many oddballs manufactured. You could live to 300 and still not be able to collect all of them.

My vote for rarest and most valuable, besides the 1911 protypes, would probably be that unusual "Micro-1911" they made just one of back in the mid-1920s. I don't remember all the details but it was a 1911, but shrunk in size (not chopped, I mean SHRUNK) and chambering a .38 caliber round. There are pictures of it in "The Government Models" but I don't know any more as I'm going by memory (I don't have the book). It looks exactly like a standard Government Model but is only about 3/4 the size.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have the small book of the Government Models and don't remember seeing that DSK. Though I don't currently have book available. It is probably in the large book from Clawson. And that brings me to prototypes, the 1910 is probably the most valuable 1911 there is. $200,000 and sold 10 yrs. ago. That is pretty rare I think.
 

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Originally posted by dsk:
<snip>

My vote for rarest and most valuable, besides the 1911 protypes, would probably be that unusual "Micro-1911" they made just one of back in the mid-1920s. I don't remember all the details but it was a 1911, but shrunk in size (not chopped, I mean SHRUNK) and chambering a .38 caliber round. There are pictures of it in "The Government Models" but I don't know any more as I'm going by memory (I don't have the book). It looks exactly like a standard Government Model but is only about 3/4 the size.
That would be the Model of 1910/11 in 9.8mm

According to Goddard ("The Government Models") there were 3 of them one may have been built from parts in 1929.

Goddard shows approx 10,000 of the "transition" 1911 - 1911a1s. He lists 104 of the Canadian NAACO guns.

A rarity, one I have never seen in the flesh, is a model of 1909 which looks like a 1910 slide on a 1905 frame - there were at least 14 of them.

Happy hunting!

Jim Higginbotham
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I remember a 1909 looking just like a 1911. I am evolving here so I must see the 1909 which looks like a 1910 slide on a 1905 frame. JimH where in the world did you see this pistol. And thank you for having early Colt knowledge.
 

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Originally posted by Redzone:
I remember a 1909 looking just like a 1911. I am evolving here so I must see the 1909 which looks like a 1910 slide on a 1905 frame. JimH where in the world did you see this pistol. And thank you for having early Colt knowledge.
Matter of fact I think there may be two 1909s, though perhaps all of the "slant handle" models are after this. The one I was referring to was made up at the Colt factory rather than at the behest of the Military I think and there were just a few guns. It is sometimes reffered to as the "straight handle". If I am not mistaken the Patent drawing is on # 984,519 (which was issued on 2-14 -1911 (what a coincidence - 90 years ago tomorrow).

The source is "The Government Models" by William H.D.Goddard ISBN: 0-917218-24-8

Best regards,
Jim Higginbotham

[This message has been edited by JimH (edited 02-13-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
What does the number 984,519 represent in your post JimH? Remember were all new to this Colt 1911 stuff.
 

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Redzone...

I can't be certain the Colt I had was
a transitional model. Until the two
dealers expressed interest, I had never heard of a transitional model.
I've checked my book-(I try to keep good
records)- If it's the gun I'm thinking of,
it was Colt serial #707xxx. My Colt date
book shows it made in 1924. I think the
transitional models were made around 1923.
Again, I'm out of my element on this. But
those guys sure thought it was something.
Incidently, I see I paid $165 for it not
$300. The Model 70 Winchester I took in
trade was serial #75xx. I think my research
back then showed it to have been made in
1937. Wish I still had either or both guns.
 

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Originally posted by Redzone:
What does the number 984,519 represent in your post JimH? Remember were all new to this Colt 1911 stuff.
Oh that is nothing most folks should know. It is the patent # I think for the drawing that I was looking at at the time.

Actually I beleive it is one of the main patents for the 1911 and Goddard thinks that the drawing is not as up to date because Browning wanted to not publicize his latests mods lest they be copied.

I don't really know much about pantent law, apparently you can cover a lot of unspecific stuff with them though.

Take care,
Jim Higginbotham
 

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Originally posted by Sport:
Redzone...

I can't be certain the Colt I had was
a transitional model. Until the two
dealers expressed interest, I had never heard of a transitional model.
I've checked my book-(I try to keep good
records)- If it's the gun I'm thinking of,
it was Colt serial #707xxx. My Colt date
book shows it made in 1924. I think the
transitional models were made around 1923.
Again, I'm out of my element on this<snip>.
The Goddard book lists "U.S. Army Transition" models (those that had 1911 slides but 1911a1 features - not to be confused with arsenal rebuilds) as running from Jan 22 1924 to July 25 1925 and the serial # range from 700001 to 710000.

Looks to me like yours was definitely one of those! Decidely a piece of history.

Carry on.

Jim Higginbotham
 

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My grandfather told me he had one that he took from a dead Japanese soldier(I guess he got it form a dead USGI) he said it was made by the sewing machine company. He was going to bring it home at the wars' end but his orders came through faster than he anticipated and asked a buddy to send it home along with a case of other things he collected but he never seen it or the case again. Maybe not rare but the circumstances certainly are. He has many stories of his days in the war and his M1 and 45. Some funny, some sad and some just down right chilling.
 

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Not rare! Are you talkin' about the .45? That was a Singer, there were only 500 made!

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I know many of us have grandfathers or fathers who served in WWII or Korea or Vietnam. Both my grandfathers were WWII Army Aircore. I just wish my dads dad was still alive. I had many great times with him. Though i've gotten maybe six or seven stories from moms dad. Maybe two or three from Gramp Miller. I don't care he was a fantastic person as anyone from the days at the City of Phoenix Street Department will attest
 
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