granted, such loads probably aren't actually marketed to even cops, much less to the general public, but the potential is there, for the knowledgable handloader. Don't kid yourself that no handgun load can be a real manstopper. Such loads are every bit as destructive and shocking as is the 223 softpoint, from a rifle, and 223 sp's are easily proven (on animals) to be far more effective than is .45 230 gr jhp's. 77 gr 223's, from 14"-16 barrels, are only 2700 fps, or less, at the muzzle. Out where animals get hit, they are going only 2400 fps, or less. Yet they do a good job. The .45 has 4x the frontal area of the 223, so it doesn't need as much velocity as the 223 does, to get the same effect on flesh and blood. 20+ years ago, THV-?Arcane had a 60 gr . 45 bullet, at 2200+ fps. With today's fully supported .45 Super barrels, modern powders, heavy springs, etc, you can get considerably better performance than the THV got, too.