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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I read with interest the thread about not using clp on the DW duty coat, and good I did as I have clp around the gun locker. Am I to gather you guys are using Fp 10 to clean and lubricate? What then is the recommendation for a good protectant for a wipe down before storage..? I normally used remoil, and at times wd-40, seems some of you guys are doing this too. Just don't want to hose up a gun that cost a few cents right off the bat...

Any insight is appreciated.
 

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Fp10 is fine for the wipe down. If longer term storage, DW makes finish protector. You can get a bottle of their lube and bottle of protectant for 10.00 for both. Oh and 9.00 shipping, but it's good stuff.

Be be careful if you use a rage with clp that you don't set the DT down on it
 

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FP-10 is a CLP. Look right on the bottle. It states "It Cleans, Lubricates, and Protects! right on the label of the bottle. Rem-oil, while a very thin product, is safe and is also a CLP type product. There are many of our Lubes that clean lube and protect and are actually safe. ***Note I added the purple color, size, and being in bold for effect.***

I think we DW owners need to stop using the term CLP when referring to what is not safe for our beloved Duty Coat finish. Many products are CLP's and are perfectly safe to use.

I truly feel it would be in every DW DT owners best interest to start trying to identify the harsh ingredients that will cloud the finish. At the very least always state the full name of the bad product and not just CLP.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks gents... yes I agree that a generic term used of CLP is confusing. Valor put away wiped down with a good oil. Thanks for bringing the thread to my attention right off the bat. Would hate to read that a day too late :(
 

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For the past 3 or 4 years, I've been using only FP-10 to clean, lube, and protect all of my 1911s--not just my DW's. Very pleased with the results.

Also, for the 101st time: Dan Wesson does not use Duty Coat anymore. All of the black stainless steel guns have the newer Duty Treat finish. It is not a coating. And so much for that.
 

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This posting is simply approaching this question through the use of critical thinking. No offence is meant to anyone.

Here is KeithDW's oft quoted statment about CLP:

"Also, Beware of gun cleaners such as CLP that is not polymer safe. Though our Duty finish is not Polymer these "gun scrubbers" will damage the look of our Duty finish."

The conclusion of the cleaning thread is that the statement really means:

"...Beware of gun cleaners such as CLP ..." and it has to be Safariland Breakfree CLP.

This is not at all clear. However, the the verb "to be" in this sentence is singular. It is "is" (bolded). Since "is" is singular and the noun being acted upon is "CLP" one can infer that a single type of CLP is not safe for Duty Treat. If the verb to be was "are", it would be acting on the plural noun "gun cleaners."

Here it is with the change of the verb.

"Also, Beware of gun cleaners such as CLP that are not polymer safe. Though our Duty finish is not Polymer these "gun scrubbers" will damage the look of our Duty finish."

Also, if we took out "such as CLP" it would read:

Also, Beware of gun cleaners are not polymer safe. Though our Duty finish is not Polymer these "gun scrubbers" will damage the look of our Duty finish."

Safariland Breakfree CLP is polymer safe. (I would like to be proven wrong on this)

OK, enough of this grammarian B.S. Let's look at some facts....

I've seen other postings where owners use Breakfree CLP with no problem. I tried to no avail to find another thread where someone thought Breakfree CLP damaged duty treat, but it was dubious since there were other cleaners in the mix.

Safariland has a product with warnings about polymer and plastic damage:

"...May cause damage to painted finishes, camouflage or wood finishes and most polymers. ..."

"...DANGER: Contains Acetone and Toluene..."

http://www.safariland.com/gun-cleaners-and-solvents/powder-blast-gun-cleaner-15527.html

Their CLP does not have these warnings. They are actually benign:

"...CAUTION: Contains Petroleum distillates. If swallowed do not induce vomiting. Call physician immediately. Use with adequate ventilation...."

http://www.safariland.com/gun-lubricants-and-protectants/clp-cleaner-lubricant-and-protectant-15337.html

The only one that can clear up what he meant is KeithDW. I've only seen conjecture (like mine) to what he meant.

However, I did an experiment (with pictures):
1) First picture is with one grip removed and the area cleaned with patches.
2) Second picture shows two oil spots near the bottom grip bushing. One is Breakfree and one is DW rail oil. I applied the oils and rubbed with a swab for 1 minute and let it sit for a few minutes. I think this would simulate a typical cleaning.
3) This is after I cleaned up the area with a patch. (not sure why the picture show horizontal in the preview, but that actual picture itself is the same orientation as the others)

Who can tell me which is DW rail oil and which is Breakfree CLP? Left or Right?

--Citiot
 

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It would be helpful if #3 was the same angle and POV was the same as 1 and 2.

If Keith reccomends fp-10, DW rail lube and militec and others have said FireClean is tried and true, why split hairs. I guess if you use safari land clp safely and want to use it, it's your gun. But the OP is referencing reccomended products, so why confuse the issue and make it sound like you are saying it's okay to use Safariland and ignore what Keith says.
 

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It would be helpful if #3 was the same angle and POV was the same as 1 and 2.

If Keith reccomends fp-10, DW rail lube and militec and others have said FireClean is tried and true, why split hairs. I guess if you use safari land clp safely and want to use it, it's your gun. But the OP is referencing reccomended products, so why confuse the issue and make it sound like you are saying it's okay to use Safariland and ignore what Keith says.
Yes, the original posting refers to specific products, but others mentioned "CLP."

The point of my post is that these is no way to ascertain what Keith says. All I've found is an unclear sentence written by Keith. My intent wasn't to "confuse." Rather I was trying to help out with facts about BF CLP.

I'm not sure you read my analysis of the sentence. Yes, it's bit much. My 'grammarian' point was to show that is totally unclear and no conclusion could be made by it.

Also, others on this forum have said that cleaning with Safariland Breakfree CLP is tried and true on duty treat. I can't find a single instance where it is totally conclusive that BF CLP damaged duty treat (except for the one where two other cleaners were in the mix)

Safariland CLP is described as "Great for polymer composition automatics."

I just now pulled out the manual.

Specifically for cleaning and lube supplies:
--- It says to use oil based cleaner (polymer safe).
--- It specifies gun oil such as FP-10, Militec-1 or DW rail lube.

The recommendation for fp-10, DW rail lube and militec is only for lubing. and polymer safe oil based cleaner for cleaning.

The manual is very clear. Oil based cleaners are safe for cleaning duty treat.

--citiot

P.S. I have no idea what is going on with the third picture. It seems to have a mind of its own. I just uploaded it on this message and it now is oriented correctly. I will try it again on the original post.
 

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This posting is simply approaching this question through the use of critical thinking. No offence is meant to anyone.

Here is KeithDW's oft quoted statment about CLP:

"Also, Beware of gun cleaners such as CLP that is not polymer safe. Though our Duty finish is not Polymer these "gun scrubbers" will damage the look of our Duty finish."

The conclusion of the cleaning thread is that the statement really means:

"...Beware of gun cleaners such as CLP ..." and it has to be Safariland Breakfree CLP.

This is not at all clear. However, the the verb "to be" in this sentence is singular. It is "is" (bolded). Since "is" is singular and the noun being acted upon is "CLP" one can infer that a single type of CLP is not safe for Duty Treat. If the verb to be was "are", it would be acting on the plural noun "gun cleaners."

Here it is with the change of the verb.

"Also, Beware of gun cleaners such as CLP that are not polymer safe. Though our Duty finish is not Polymer these "gun scrubbers" will damage the look of our Duty finish."

Also, if we took out "such as CLP" it would read:

Also, Beware of gun cleaners are not polymer safe. Though our Duty finish is not Polymer these "gun scrubbers" will damage the look of our Duty finish."

Safariland Breakfree CLP is polymer safe. (I would like to be proven wrong on this)

OK, enough of this grammarian B.S. Let's look at some facts....

I've seen other postings where owners use Breakfree CLP with no problem. I tried to no avail to find another thread where someone thought Breakfree CLP damaged duty treat, but it was dubious since there were other cleaners in the mix.

Safariland has a product with warnings about polymer and plastic damage:

"...May cause damage to painted finishes, camouflage or wood finishes and most polymers. ..."

"...DANGER: Contains Acetone and Toluene..."

http://www.safariland.com/gun-cleaners-and-solvents/powder-blast-gun-cleaner-15527.html

Their CLP does not have these warnings. They are actually benign:

"...CAUTION: Contains Petroleum distillates. If swallowed do not induce vomiting. Call physician immediately. Use with adequate ventilation...."

http://www.safariland.com/gun-lubricants-and-protectants/clp-cleaner-lubricant-and-protectant-15337.html

The only one that can clear up what he meant is KeithDW. I've only seen conjecture (like mine) to what he meant.

However, I did an experiment (with pictures):
1) First picture is with one grip removed and the area cleaned with patches.
2) Second picture shows two oil spots near the bottom grip bushing. One is Breakfree and one is DW rail oil. I applied the oils and rubbed with a swab for 1 minute and let it sit for a few minutes. I think this would simulate a typical cleaning.
3) This is after I cleaned up the area with a patch. (not sure why the picture show horizontal in the preview, but that actual picture itself is the same orientation as the others)

Who can tell me which is DW rail oil and which is Breakfree CLP? Left or Right?

--Citiot
Only one issue I may see with your "experiment". What gun did you use? If that frame is alloy then your results are a moot point. The DW alloy frames are hard anodized, not duty treated. The issue with certain cleaners affecting finishes on DW's only relate to duty treated parts.
 

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Only one issue I may see with your "experiment". What gun did you use? If that frame is alloy then your results are a moot point. The DW alloy frames are hard anodized, not duty treated. The issue with certain cleaners affecting finishes on DW's only relate to duty treated parts.
Yes, Citiot has made a comprehensive point with his posts in this thread, but he/she did not specify the model gun used.
 

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Safariland Breakfree CLP will ruin/splotch the DW duty treated finish instantly. So will alcohol. I speak from first hand experience.

If you want to use a cleaner other than gun oil, rem oil, WD40, or any oil for than matter (duty treat loves oil), I have used Hoppes9. You can soak the pistol in Hoppes9 and it will not harm the finish. There are other cleaners that will work as well but I will not endorse them unless I try them first.

I have had many dealing with Dave Severns. He is very well known and respected gunsmith/dealer in DW products. After he inspects and tests a DW firearm, prior to shipping he gives it a spritz and wipe down with WD40. That's what he does. I usually just use a any old oily rag as I do not use any solvents on my bench that will discolor/strip the oil out of duty treat.
 

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Yes it's a Heritage but one that has been Duty Treated.
Correct, Heritage and recently Duty Treated. Sorry about that.

Regarding my testing process. Yes it was simple, but it contained all the steps necessary for a scientific test:

Research - I read all about FNC process, etc. I also looked for any confirmed incidences of finish damage (Duty Treat) by Breakfree CLP. Having not found anyone else performing an actual test, I moved on to the next step.

Problem - Differing opinions on the safety of applying and cleaning gun with Breakfree CLP. All we have to answer the question is a grammatically dubious sentence from KeithDW. We also have the owner's manual which says the oil based cleaners are recommended (for cleaning).

We have clear recommendations on lubrication (FP-10, Militec-1, DW oil). That is not disputed and is not part of the experiment.

What is the effect of Breakfree CLP on Duty Coat?

Hypothesis - Breakfree CLP will not affect Duty Coat

Experiment - This contains several steps:
a) Independent Variable - I am changing the type of cleaning oil
b) Controlled Variables - this is the Dan Wesson Oil
c) Dependent Variable - the appearance of duty treat after experiment

Results - my pictures

Discussion and Conclusion - my two postings.

One thing I should have done was repeat the experiment several times. It is possible that repeated applications of Breakfree CLP could wreck the appearance of the Duty Treat. I will do several more experiments today to include these Independent Variables:

1) let oils sit longer
2) apply oils to the same spot
3) any suggestions forum members can come up with.

---------------------------

Here is some constructive criticism for KeithDW and a request -

Keith, your public statement about CLP is unclear and is the root cause of differing opinions. In order to remove opinions, beliefs and conjecture, I did a reasonably scientific experiment and it indicates that BF CLP is fine for cleaning. As soon as you see this thread, can you clear this all up?

--citiot
 

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. . . Here is some constructive criticism for KeithDW and a request -

Keith, your public statement about CLP is unclear and is the root cause of differing opinions. In order to remove opinions, beliefs and conjecture, I did a reasonably scientific experiment and it indicates that BF CLP is fine for cleaning. As soon as you see this thread, can you clear this all up?

--citiot
I have some constructive criticism for the CITIOT:

You should attempt to state your position in a less abrasive and arrogant manner.
And, as you stated in your earlier post, NO OFFENSE INTENDED.
 

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Personally, I didn't find CITIOT's posts abrasive OR arrogant. But maybe I'm wearing my thick skin today.

I too find the use of the term CLP confusing as to whether it refers to a specific product like Break Free or a generic term as used with FP-10 that cleans, lubricates and protects. For example, are saying to Xerox me some copies (as in using a Xerox copier)? Or are we saying Xerox me some copies (using a Canon or HP copier)? Words matter. When used imprecisely they can convey entirely different context or intent.
 

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Well then I guess the OP should ignore the manufacture's reccomendation and rely upon yours. And of course if he uses alchahol, degreaser, and a gun scrubber or Safariland and has an issue somebody other than DW is going to pay to fix it, right?
 

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Oils such as Rem oil, Hoppe's and the like, I only recommend for the surface and small moving parts.

Also, Beware of gun cleaners such as CLP that is not polymer safe. Though our Duty finish is not Polymer these "gun scrubbers" will damage the look of our Duty finish. Using oil as a cleaner is all you need. A little oil, nylon brush and elbow grease does wonders. Kroil, btw, is a great oil cleaner. It will even remove copper fouling from your barrel. Bench rest shooters have been using it for years. This is from the sticky.
 
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