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I am currently thinking about purchasing a 1911 .45ACP. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but would like some opinions. I've tried Kimbers and Para-Ordnances and find both to be accurate and fun to shoot. My problem is that I'm having trouble justifying the price of some of these guns. Since I can buy a SIG P220 for about $630 at a local shop, I'm wondering does anyone make a 1911 at or near that price that can equal the accuracy and reliabilty of a SIG? Also, who makes the most reliable 1911? What is the most reliable 1911 under $1000? Thanks for your help.
 

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Well, the base Kimber Custom was priced at around $600. I believe the price has gone up a little, but if you're paying more than about $650 for one then the seller is really upping his margins!

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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://usgi1911.tripod.com
 

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SIGs are usually very reliable, yes. But I once owned a P220, and for some reason it didn't like CCI Blazers. Neither did my blued Series 80. Two things were obviously apparent: Regarding the SIG, the ammo was definitely to blame. With the 1911, the gun must have been. At least, that seems the conventional wisdom.


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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://usgi1911.tripod.com
 

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I agree with DSK, ammo can cause problems in a ny gun except the 1911. if the 1911 doesn't work its because its an old design and is poorly made!!( YEAH RIGHT)

i have shot a friends sig p220 and i like it, i don't own one and prob never will though because it just doesn't catch my fancy.

if your looking for a good basic 1911 i have to say the colts are really look up these days, not that i hear much trouble out of the old ones, i plan on getting a couple of the older ones to shoot.

don't think for a second that you have to buy a high end 1911 or send a basic one to the smith to get it to work. both of the colts that i have got this year have been very accurate and realible out of the box. (someone tell me i'm lieing because i'm biased, this wouldn't be a good discusion without it!)

i can't recommend the other basic models except the basic kimber that my brother has, it has proven itself to be a good gun. the others i haven't messed with and therefore i cannot comment on honestly

russel the cop

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CHANCE FAVORS THE PREPARED MIND....
 

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Faster Blaster,
Get the basic Colt Government Model. It's what, $500-600 or thereabouts? I'm talking about the former 1991A1 model, not the $800 stainless Government Model. I have a 1991A1 and it is flawless. Out of the box reliability and accuracy that is outstanding. --Brian
 

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Thats a good price for the Sig. Gun-tests magazine ( http://www.gun-tests.com ) gave it some very good reviews. I believe they called the P220 handgun of the year. On the other hand, the 1911 has been doing its job for 90 years, and also has a rep for reliability. The HK USP is also a great gun for the money. You can't go wrong with any of the three in my opinion.

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-Electric Armadillo-
"You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend." - Yasir Arrafat (On going to war over religion)
 

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The SIG will be more reliable and more accurate out of the box ...
... perhaps, however it will not deliver the superior human engineering, a quicker or more intuitive trigger system and smoother carry profile that are inherent in every 1911. (The accuracy observation may start a virtual brawl or two, but I'm steering clear of it.)


Chuck
 

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Overall IMHO the 1911 is top dog, I have seen LOTS of guns, and you do get extremes on both sides, great ones, and real dogs...(if you get a good one, keep it!) but the running average that that I have observed just doesn't support the whole Sig, Glock, stigma. Those guns are made great by great PR people. I'm not saying that they're not good guns by any stretch, they are...but the 1911 has been made great (great, mind you, not just good, it satnds alone) by standing the test of time, the one real honest to god test that no one can deny. Anyone remember how big Para-Ordinance was when they hit the market...good PR, Para's by and large suck, they fall apart too fast. Come back in another 100 years and tell me how well your glock has held up. Or your sig. My great grandson will still be shooting my 1911.
Get any of the Name brand 1911's, Kimber, SA, Colt, though I prefer Kimber. You can pay alot more and not get alot more gun if you want, if it makes you feel better to say that your gun cost $2000. I wouldn't pay more than about $800 to $1000 for a very nice 1911 that works perfect out of the box.
Just my $.02 worth.

[This message has been edited by paul84043 (edited 11-29-2001).]
 

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Most people go to the effort and expense of a 1911 because of several things.

The .45 cartridge
The trigger
The cocked and locked
The way it can be detail stripped
The low bore axis and ergonomics
The history and nostalgia
The popularity and parts available
Ability to tinker w/ the gun

I really can't think of a pistol as powerful as a .45 1911 that comes to the first accurate shot as fast, and the same for follow up shots.
If you are really into guns, you will gravitate toward the 1911 eventually, make the extra effort and lay the cash.

If you are a more casual shooter, the SIG is a very fine gun. Not to say that some really serious folks don't use the SIG. I think Navy SEALS often use .45 cal SIGS. That's a pretty good recommendation.

The 1911 keeps hanging around for a reason though!

Think about a plain jane Colt as a starter gun. See how you like it. If you want to sell later, or just put it in your collection, it will probably have more value to you.

[This message has been edited by elsworth (edited 11-29-2001).]
 

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I've recently handled a NIB Rock Island Armory Govt. Model (Mil-Spec)and WOW was it nice for the price.

Retail was $405.00, I didn't like the factory mag or the smooth wood grips but the gun looked top notch.

Literature said it was CNC machined and it looked Beautiful for a parkerized gun. Th

Prolly my next purchase.

If Only Colt had made the rerun 1911a1 this nice
 

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Originally posted by Colt Man:
Need I say it?? If it's not a Colt, it is just a copy.

Amen to that. With the copies you get just as good quality, more features like decent novak or novak-like sights, a good beaver tail, and an extended thumb safety.

With the "Original" (which happens to be the John Browning US 1911 Army which Colt bought the rights to manufacture), regardless of the marketing ploy, you actually get to pay more for less in some circumstaces!

What a bargain! Not...

Colt's got the quality back up, now if they could just match the features and the price, I might actually consider buying one...Thank goodness for competition.


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'In 1913, as he was imposing an income tax on this country (after the Supreme Court had declared Abraham Lincoln's income tax unlawful), Woodrow Wilson promised Americans that it would never go any higher than five percent, and that it would never affect anyone but the very wealthiest two percent of the population. Almost certainly this is where the observation first came from, that you can tell a politician is lying -- because his mouth is moving.' -- Aaron Zelman and L. Neil Smith, Hope, Page 218.
 

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Don't know what you're talking about. I got almost everything I wanted in the new Colt for over $100 less than Kimber or Springfield. In fact, neither Kimber nor SA make a 1911 copy that has the features I want. I've experienced outstanding quality with both the Kimber and Colt, though. You should be able to find examples from either brand for less than a Sig if you look for them, and you can't go wrong either way!

If you really can't decide, just ask yourself who your favorite special operators are: Marine Force Recon (they use the 1911) or Navy SEALs (they use the P226).
 

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Here's one

After about 15,000 rounds which pistol do you think will be looser? I'd bet the steel framed 1911 against a aluminum framed Sig 220 would be as tight, or as close to, as it was in the begining.

I had the opportunity to handle an instructors Sig 228 that has about 15,000 rounds through it and the slide to frame play was enormous. He mentioned that it was time to get a new one or a different pistol.

The Sigs are good pistols, I have a couple myself. But, the 1911 still is tops with me.

Ross T.
 

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How come Sigs have a factory stated life of 10,000 rounds? I've personally owned a few and once they get above 7,000, things start to rattle. Are they good out of the box? Absolutely. Should you expect it to hold up to high round count? Nah!
 

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There is something special about the 1911s SA first shot speed and accuracy. It is much easier to keep the gun on target under stress and depress the trigger all of 1/16" to 1/8" and feel the crispness trigger event. Under stressful situations, less trigger pull and less trigger distance is a real plus over DA first pull which are usually longer and require more pressure.

Ayoob talks about poor first shot hit rates in stress situation by police using a gun that has a DA first pull, and notes better success on followup shots that are SA.

The way I see it, in a gun fight, if I get to shoot, I can't count on getting to shoot more than once and I want that one shot to have all the advantages. The 1911 seems to deliver exactly that. If all goes well, my first shot will also be the last that I have to shoot in that fight.
 
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