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The 9X23 is a very powerful and fun round for that reason. People should not panic about having a fully supported chamber with the 9X23 if the original Winchester brass is used. It is very thick and durable and was designed to be fired in an unsupported chamber, from what I've read. The information at the link provided in post #3 is consistent with that claim. Only the Starline brass must be used with caution.

The 38 Super does not require a fully supported chamber if pressures are kept within SAAMI specs. There are zillions of Colts out there that have been just fine since 1929. The only time you need a fully supported chamber is when you load ANYTHING beyond pressures for what the cartridge was designed.

Companies don't load stuff that they know will blow up in your gun. Why would they knowingly do that? If they do, they tell you, like warnings that come with Underwood's 10mm ammo. They specifically warn people not to use their 10mm ammo in Colt DE or other guns with rampless barrels because of poor chamber support.
Hey, it's your hands. Do as you please. :rolleyes:
 

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I just wish that Colt had made the 9x23mm back in the day. Even with 1920s era powders it would have been a good performer.

It might even have made a good sub-machine gun cartridge.

My 9x23 is a Colt conversion kit slide and barrel mounted on an old Caspian frame. As already stated, a ramped barrel is not necessary.

The Starline brass, while not as strong as the Winchester, is still fairly strong.

It is a shame that all of that high velocity doesn't count for much in the real world.
 

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Please clarify what your comment means. It's meaningless without context.
If you want to risk blowing your gun up and injuring your hands, eyes and other body parts by firing high pressure ammo in an unsupported chamber, that's your business. If it's worth the risk to you, go for it.

But I wouldn't let anyone else shoot it. If it blows in someone else's hands, they might end up living in your house and driving your car.
 

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If you want to risk blowing your gun up and injuring your hands, eyes and other body parts by firing high pressure ammo in an unsupported chamber, that's your business. If it's worth the risk to you, go for it.

But I wouldn't let anyone else shoot it. If it blows in someone else's hands, they might end up living in your house and driving your car.
Are you saying that it is unsafe to shoot 9X23 using original Winchester brass in an unsupported chamber? What do you base this on? Actual experience, or made up BS?

Back up your statements with documented data, facts, and details. Otherwise it has no value and you'll come off as a pretend know-it-all.
 

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Are you saying that it is unsafe to shoot 9X23 using original Winchester brass in an unsupported chamber? What do you base this on? Actual experience, or made up BS?

Back up your statements with documented data, facts, and details. Otherwise it has no value and you'll come off as a pretend know-it-all.
Look, Dude. I ain't gonna argue with you about it. As I said, your gun, your hands, your choice.
 

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As long as we're on the subject (kinda),
what's the feelings on using 38 super and 9x23 from the same barrel?

Let's assume it's a ramped barrel with good support and that the chamber has seen
both reamers.
 

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Are you saying that it is unsafe to shoot 9X23 using original Winchester brass in an unsupported chamber? What do you base this on? Actual experience, or made up BS?

Back up your statements with documented data, facts, and details. Otherwise it has no value and you'll come off as a pretend know-it-all.
Wonder if he knows that all the Colt factory 9x23 guns had standard, unsupported chambers?
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
As long as we're on the subject (kinda),
what's the feelings on using 38 super and 9x23 from the same barrel?

Let's assume it's a ramped barrel with good support and that the chamber has seen
both reamers.
While NOT a 1911, my Witness (a F/S steel frame) .38 Super ran both from the stock barrel without issue; fed fine, didn't bulge brass, extracted fine. Only problem was the magazines, in that instance.

Not a recommendation, just a data point re: your request.


Larry
 

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As long as we're on the subject (kinda),
what's the feelings on using 38 super and 9x23 from the same barrel?

Let's assume it's a ramped barrel with good support and that the chamber has seen
both reamers.
I am sure some people do it, and get away with it. The specs on both cartridges are very close, and tolerances being what they are, I am sure that some people get by just fine.

I have not ever done it, (at least knowlingly). Soon after I put my 9x23 together, I was loading a batch of .38 Super, and a stray 9x23mm case went through the sizing die. I noticed immediately because of the extra force it took. Yes, 9x23 looks funny when sized in a .38 Super sizing die.

I suspect that the opposite of that situation is also true. .38 Super brass looks funny when fired from a 9x23 chamber.

Now, a .38 Super barrel rechambered to 9x23 would most likely be close enough to 9x23 specs to shoot 9x23, but would be very sloppy for .38 Super.

I admit to being tempted to get a .38 Super Witness, and rechamber it to 9x23, but life keeps getting in the way.

Interestingly enough, I have a Bar-Sto barrel chambered for 9x23. I paid next to nothing for it back in the day on E-Bay. It is a SIG barrel, and I assume some one bought it for a .38 Super P220. It fits in my P226, but obviously the cartridges won't fit in a P226 magazine. Not that I want to shoot 9x23 cartridges through a stamped slide W German P226 1:eek:

Never did find a P220 to use it in. Makes an interesting paper weight, however.
 

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Since you ask - emphasize feelings

As long as we're on the subject (kinda),
what's the feelings on using 38 super and 9x23 from the same barrel?

Let's assume it's a ramped barrel with good support and that the chamber has seen
both reamers.
I've got one such barrel. A Kimber made in .38 Super and rechambered with his own clean up spec reamer by Dane Burns to 9x23. Based in part on conversation with the maker my feeling is nothing to be gained so I don't - but if I had a reason I might well.

As it is I shoot 9x19 and other cartridges in other pistols for lost brass situations. IDPA and other games I use a Wilson CQB in .45 but as I age out and my hands hurt I definitely prefer 9x19 for punching holes in paper - although I have a deplorable tendency to forget a long distance paper punch is deadly.
 

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Yes. I know 9x23 was DESIGNED to be fired from an unsupported chamber. I know the case walls are thicker. But it's still brass. Soft and malleable. It may work fine the first time around and even reloaded 2 or 3 times. But since it is so popular I can't seem to find any reliable data on how many times it's safe to reload.

Secondly, we're talking about re-chambering an UNKOWN 9mm barrel for a HIGH pressure round. Hey, it may hold up just fine. It may not. Do you REALLY want to recommend that?????
 

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The 9x23 Winchester is fine without a supported chamber. Pressure fears are unfounded. The case does the work, not the barrel. That was the original intent. Just because a barrel has an integral ramp, doesn't mean it's fully supporting the case either.

Generally, all that's required is a proper chamber reaming with the proper reamer. 9mm barrels seem to work best.
PW, I shoot a lot of super out of the 9x23 these days, as the ammo is getting a little harder to find. Bulges a bit, but doesn't present a problem in my experience. I wouldn't reload the super brass more than once or twice, or with really hot loads at all, but works fine.

My biggest fear for anyone, is shooting Winchester 9x23 in a .38 super chamber, just because it fits occasionally. The throat for the .38 Super is half that of the 9x23 and pressures can skyrocket.
It's my favorite round and what I carry, and far underrated.
In my long experience with it, any 1911 that can safely shoot, can safely shoot 9x23.
No special heat treatment or fitting magic needed.
Ream it properly, spring it correctly, and watch your ammo dollars disappear....:)
CW
 

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Continuing to go a little bit afield.

What is the place of the 9x23 Nowlin?

Is it the same as the CP, the same as the 9x23 Winchester or a tight bore 9x23 or what? All I know is that Nowlin sold dies labeled 9x23 Nowlin in green RCBS die boxes.
 

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CWarner,

Are you referring to 38 Super throats in general or does this include "modern" chamberings including the 38 Super Nonte?

I have a drawing for a Nonte Reamer and it looks like the Nonte and 9X23 chamber are very similar. The Nonte chamber has 0.075” freebore followed by a 1.5˚ bevel. The 9X23 has 0.058-0.080” freebore followed by a 2˚ bevel. Bottom line from these drawings is that the 38 Super Nonte throat is as long, or longer than the 9X23, if I'm reading them correctly.

I realize that the old SAAMI drawings for the 38 Super chamber, which headspaces on the semi-rim, has a very short throat relative to the Nonte or 9X23.

Please advise.
 

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I was referring to all .38 supers in general. I don't know what drawings for the 9x23 your using, but mine call for .100 freebore and 1.5 degree leade, much gentler, and the same drawings the original reamers were made from. This is significant where pressure is concerned.
I've used those numbers since the cartridges inception and got my reamers at the same time as John Ricco when he finalized its design.
I think you may have transposed the Nonte and 9x23 numbers?

I would also add that, beyond the reamer drawings you must add .020 thousands from the case out to the freebore portion of the 9x23 reamer, for a total freebore of .123. The the freebore portion of the reamer is called out at .100, but it ends .123 from the case mouth, or end of the chamber.
CW
 
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