[Chance-dg]

When I lived in Montana, 25 years, I carried factory loads in the back country. Usually. 300g Cast Cores as my revolvers shot them so well. I still have several boxes of them. Now I am old and gimped up so here in TN there is no need to beat myself up. I load Rim Rock 240s and 250s with 7.5g Unique. I have a S&W 329pd and my old SBH 5.5" and enjoy shooting them both. If I had an opportunity to go back, I would just carry the SBH in my truck or Ranger. The 329pd is too lite for many heavy loads at a time. My Uberti El Patron 45 Colt 1873 clone is rated for heavy loads but has the original sized stocks and is not as comfortable to shoot heavies as my SBH with the plow share grip frame.

 

[riposte191145]

Ordering some 260 gr Keith Style Flat Base from Rim Rock Bullets, and was wondering if anyone has loaded these bullets, or a similiar 260 gr bullet?
I’m loading for a Taurus M-44, and I’m not looking for max loads with H-110, but will be loading with CFE Pistol, and Unique. Don’t think the Taurus is equal in strength to a 29 Smith and certainly nothing like a Redhawk, but would like to work up some loads in the 1100-1150 fps range that won’t put any undue stress on the Taurus .44, so I’d be interested in anyones experience loading this bullet, or for a similiar Taurus .44 Mag. I’m really looking for a bigger hammer than 180’s in my Service Six without having to buy a new revolver!

Rimrock list their hard cast line as either 12 or 15 bhn, I figure either would do for 1100 fps and that should definitely give you a "bigger hammer" .

Even in 4" guns, powders in the 2400 burning rate work, but at 1100 fps even powders down around Unique work well also.

I don't have much experience with .44s using really heavy bullets, but I've shot a few deer with a 245 Keith, one at 110 yards, in .44 Spl. at around 1000 fps - I could not have asked for any better performance (dropped on the spot) - I cannot imagine a 260 doing less, and it should penetrate even better on bigger critters. I did load some 340s over 296 for a 5" Redhawk but never shot anything with the load - and I'd likely consider it a bit too much these days.

Two modern powders that seem to do well are Lil'gun and Longshot (the latter being "faster") but all of the powders I see listed above should do well also.

While I like S&Ws and Rugers I do own a different .44 - it is a 2.75" Astra .44 - it seems to be a decent gun as I suspect your Taurus is.

Riposte

 

[Michael W Cuber]

Rimrock list their hard cast line as either 12 or 15 bhn, I figure either would do for 1100 fps and that should definitely give you a "bigger hammer" .

Even in 4" guns, powders in the 2400 burning rate work, but at 1100 fps even powders down around Unique work well also.

I don't have much experience with .44s using really heavy bullets, but I've shot a few deer with a 245 Keith, one at 110 yards, in .44 Spl. at around 1000 fps - I could not have asked for any better performance (dropped on the spot) - I cannot imagine a 260 doing less, and it should penetrate even better on bigger critters. I did load some 340s over 296 for a 5" Redhawk but never shot anything with the load - and I'd likely consider it a bit too much these days.

Two modern powders that seem to do well are Lil'gun and Longshot (the latter being "faster") but all of the powders I see listed above should do well also.

While I like S&Ws and Rugers I do own a different .44 - it is a 2.75" Astra .44 - it seems to be a decent gun as I suspect your Taurus is.

Riposte

I’m going to try 2400 when I can find a can. I’m leery of trying full charge 296 and H-110 loads, which can’t be reduced, in the Taurus, and with its porting and expansion chamber under the porting, it’s basically a 3” gun, so I think CFE-Pistol is probably the best bet from what I have available. My Dad is sending me home with his 629 Smith & Wesson DX Classic soon, and I really want to try the same bullets with 2400 in the Smith’s 6” barrel. To me, these are not so much “Hunting Loads,” though they could be used for that, but they are Woods Walking loads—the bigger hammer over the .357 Keith style I carry in my Police Service-Six.

 

[4barrel]

I have some 300 jacketed and 265 jacketed and 240 jacketed and 180 & 240 XTP and 310 lead and Lyman gas check 245 & a Lyman flat base 258 grain. I just opened the back up on a 245 LEE mold with a .436 reamer down to the lube grooves to make a little heavier bullet and ordered a .432 sizer to fit the throats in a RUGER S.R.H. and have a flat base. It is supposed to be here the 17th. I like the fact you can down load 2400 and Unique without a problem or mag primer but I do have mag primers for 4227. Here's one I opened up to .436 on the base and can size to .432-431-430-or .429 for better fits. This mold dropped at .429 but I elected to open up over sending back. This bullet has 2 crimp grooves and if it leads I can add grease to another groove or pan lube or powder coat. Lots of options. It works great in my buddy's Freedom arms as is but I am waiting on the sizer to try in mine.

 

[Michael W Cuber]

I have some 300 jacketed and 265 jacketed and 310 lead and Lyman gas check. I just opened the back up on a 245 LEE mold with a .436 reamer down to the lube grooves to make a little heavier bullet and ordered a .432 sizer to fit my throats in a RUGER S.R.H. and have a flat base. It is supposed to be here the 17th. I like the fact you can down load 2400 and Unique without a problem or mag primer but I do have mag primers for 4227.

Those are really Good Looking cast bullets!
I’m going to do some more experimentation with powders with my Dad’s 629. I really like how the longer bullets are engaging the rifling with the front driving band before the flat base even clears the cylinder throats—long driving bands make for accurate clean loads!

 

[4barrel]

I’m going to do some more experimentation with powders with my Dad’s 629. I really like how the longer bullets are engaging the rifling with the front driving band before the flat base even clears the cylinder throats—long driving bands make for accurate clean loads!

Measure the throats - The lead bullets need to be a little hard to push through for the best accuracy. When I had my 29-2 --17.5 grains of 2400 with a 240 lead was really accurate and it wouldn't beat you to death. I bought it in about 1981 and sold it last year. I have a nice B-SQUARE scope mount if you need one. It was on mine over 30 years and didn't leave a mark on the gun.

 

[riposte191145]

I've used H110 and 296 but I would agree it is not for lighter loads and I just don't find the need for the max loads any more.

I'm sure any flat nosed bullet will get the job done but I really like the true Keith design - it is likely just an personal taste thing. I do also like the WFNs.

Forgot to mention, but most here know, Buffalo Bore uses Rim Rock bullets in many of their factory loads - fine stuff! I think so does underwood.

Riposte

 

[Michael W Cuber]

Measure the throats - The lead bullets need to be a little hard to push through for the best accuracy. When I had my 29-2 --17.5 grains of 2400 with a 240 lead was really accurate and it wouldn't beat you to death. I bought it in about 1981 and sold it last year. I have a nice B-SQUARE scope mount if you need one. It was on mine over 30 years and didn't leave a mark on the gun.

I’m still looking for some 2400 to try in my Dad’s 629. Can’t wait for spring, and run some loads over the Chronograph—be interesting to compare the two revolvers side by side in regards to difference in velocity. The groups I’ve shot with the Taurus are going to be hard to beat—we’ll see; something to look forward to once the snow melts!

 

[riposte191145]

I’m still looking for some 2400 to try in my Dad’s 629. Can’t wait for spring, and run some loads over the Chronograph—be interesting to compare the two revolvers side by side in regards to difference in velocity. The groups I’ve shot with the Taurus are going to be hard to beat—we’ll see; something to look forward to once the snow melts!

This might not be the place to mention it but the thread reminds me that I have quite a few .44s and fairly early on I discovered vary in velocity a LOT and sometimes not in a way that makes sense. I have an 8 3/8" S&W 29-3 and it gives no more velocity than my 4" 629-1 (the same is true of some of the .357s I own - some 6" guns give less velocity than some 4").

Of course it varies. Sometimes I think it is just a matter of when the gun was made (I mean here what day of the week ) - or rather, when in the gun was made in relationship to the wear on the tooling - when the reamers are near the end of their useable life the chambers are tighter and so the gun clocks higher. Of course variance in barrel/cylinder gap has some effect as well.

Just Ramblin'

Riposte

 

[Michael W Cuber]

This might not be the place to mention it but the thread reminds me that I have quite a few .44s and fairly early on I discovered vary in velocity a LOT and sometimes not in a way that makes sense. I have an 8 3/8" S&W 29-3 and it gives no more velocity than my 4" 629-1 (the same is true of some of the .357s I own - some 6" guns give less velocity than some 4").

Of course it varies. Sometimes I think it is just a matter of when the gun was made (I mean here what day of the week ) - or rather, when in the gun was made in relationship to the wear on the tooling - when the reamers are near the end of their useable life the chambers are tighter and so the gun clocks higher. Of course variance in barrel/cylinder gap has some effect as well.

Just Ramblin'

Riposte

Perhaps the cylinder throats effect this? My Service—Six was horribly accuracy challenged, and I mic’d the throats and they were .350” dia!
They were squishing a .357-358 down to .350 and then launching them down a .3565–357 barrel!
I mic’d my brother in laws Security-Six throats and they were .357, so I reamed mine out to .3575, and it was like flipping a light switch the next time I took it out; what had been 5 inch groups were reduced to around 2” at 25 yds. The Taurus will allow me to push the 260 gr cast through the throats with some drag, but I wonder how much this might effect velocity, as I’ve encountered a mixed variety in revolvers I’ve shot over the years?

 

[markwell]

Have been following this thread with interest as it sounds like a campfire discussion in WY or MT 25 (probably more) years ago. Being a bit older than many here we have, for quite a few years, been launching Keith bullets out of our .44s with a moderate charge of Unique, or later W231, for a velocity right around 900fps and that's been enough umph for us with our beat-up joints. We loaded up some 320gr LBTs for our son when he was guiding in WY. The charge of W296 is unmentionable and we warned him the load would be really hard on his (formerly my) 6.5" 29-2 if he shot a lot of them. He still has some of that original box of 50 rounds and refers to the ammo as "attention getters". He too now runs 900-1Kfps Keith bullet loads.

I agree on the cylinder throats being critical to accuracy. Currently or .44Mag stable consists of 2 29-2s with 5" barrels one with a 6.5" (which replaced the one I gave to Brock) and a Bowen built old model Ruger Super Blackawk. Accuracy of the Smiths is variable but quite acceptable but, the Bowen gun is a tack driver having been given Hamilton's full treatment including the cylinder throats. We have also found our current .32 H&R mag project Ruger Single Sixes cast bullet accuracy has been improved by having the throats tweaked by Fernim Garza and Ronnie Wells. Just ramblin'..

Put some more wood on the fire.

 

[Michael W Cuber]

Have been following this thread with interest as it sounds like a campfire discussion in WY or MT 25 (probably more) years ago. Being a bit older than many here we have, for quite a few years, been launching Keith bullets out of our .44s with a moderate charge of Unique, or later W231, for a velocity right around 900fps and that's been enough umph for us with our beat-up joints. We loaded up some 320gr LBTs for our son when he was guiding in WY. The charge of W296 is unmentionable and we warned him the load would be really hard on his (formerly my) 6.5" 29-2 if he shot a lot of them. He still has some of that original box of 50 rounds and refers to the ammo as "attention getters". He too now runs 900-1Kfps Keith bullet loads.

I agree on the cylinder throats being critical to accuracy. Currently or .44Mag stable consists of 2 29-2s with 5" barrels one with a 6.5" (which replaced the one I gave to Brock) and a Bowen built old model Ruger Super Blackawk. Accuracy of the Smiths is variable but quite acceptable but, the Bowen gun is a tack driver having been given Hamilton's full treatment including the cylinder throats. We have also found our current .32 H&R mag project Ruger Single Sixes cast bullet accuracy has been improved by having the throats tweaked by Fernim Garza and Ronnie Wells. Just ramblin'..

Put some more wood on the fire.

Mark well, that’s part of what I so much enjoy living here in Alaska, it’s like it was 25-30 years ago in Wyoming and Montana. My cabin was furnished with 70’s trimmings and appliances (slowly had to be replaced), when I bought it, and my bathroom sink was salvaged from the US Army Air Corps base housing at Tanacross used during the Russian Lend Lease. We are really out of the rest of the worlds time frame / perspective here, and I’ve enjoyed a tremendous amount of freedom—a commodity becoming increasing more rare in the world these days!

 

[markwell]

Michael

We are fortunate to have landed in an Appalachian/Allegheny mountain state over 50 years ago which has remained free of what has plagued the mountain west and much of rural America. Although I've never had the good fortune to visit Alaska, as a climber (for business and pleasure) we have travelled the west extensively but, are glad we never moved. We worked for the same outfitter in WY as our son did for several years, and still travel to the plains for varmints yearly, but have always relished our return to the Mountains of the east. There IS freedom west of the Mississippi but we do not advertise our somewhat backward state. Your home sounds much like ours. We refer to our "Decor" as "early American basement". Good luck with your .44 endeavors.

 

[riposte191145]

Perhaps the cylinder throats effect this? My Service—Six was horribly accuracy challenged, and I mic’d the throats and they were .350” dia!
They were squishing a .357-358 down to .350 and then launching them down a .3565–357 barrel!
I mic’d my brother in laws Security-Six throats and they were .357, so I reamed mine out to .3575, and it was like flipping a light switch the next time I took it out; what had been 5 inch groups were reduced to around 2” at 25 yds. The Taurus will allow me to push the 260 gr cast through the throats with some drag, but I wonder how much this might effect velocity, as I’ve encountered a mixed variety in revolvers I’ve shot over the years?

I think so. I had a very early Ruger Blackhawk (still have it) the .45 Colt cylinder was OK but the .45 Auto cylinder was just so-so in accuracy. Finally, one day I drove a lead ball through the cylinder throats and found most were .448"!

I have the exact opposite problem with my first S&W 25-5 (pinned barrel) - the cylinder throats run from .454 to .458" - it is erratic in accuracy but some individual chambers can be accurate with lead bullets if I use one chamber only. A later, non-pinned 25-5 is much better - not only are the cylinder throats consistent, the chambers are tighter at the back, reducing case swelling. Fortunately I have a 25-7 that is also that way.

In fact one of the things I really like about USFA was that they lathe bored the chambers rather than used a reamer...or at least that is what I'm told.

Riposte

 

[Michael W Cuber]

I think so. I had a very early Ruger Blackhawk (still have it) the .45 Colt cylinder was OK but the .45 Auto cylinder was just so-so in accuracy. Finally, one day I drove a lead ball through the cylinder throats and found most were .448"!

I have the exact opposite problem with my first S&W 25-5 (pinned barrel) - the cylinder throats run from .454 to .458" - it is erratic in accuracy but some individual chambers can be accurate with lead bullets if I use one chamber only. A later, non-pinned 25-5 is much better - not only are the cylinder throats consistent, the chambers are tighter at the back, reducing case swelling. Fortunately I have a 25-7 that is also that way.

In fact one of the things I really like about USFA was that they lathe bored the chambers rather than used a reamer...or at least that is what I'm told.

Riposte

I’ve heard of some being ‘Line Bored’ with the barrel, so each throat lines up perfectly with the Forcing Cone—you see how this procedures would be costly, and it really is a “get what you pay for” endeavor. I was always a stickler that every cylinder on a revolver locked and timed right, and I’d make sure they were empty and hit the breech face with some light, so I could see each throat and how it squared with what I could see of the barrel. The variety of cylinder throat dimensions really seemed to vary with my Rutgers. First one I noticed was a .44-40 which had .426 throats (proper for .44-40), but the barrel was the same stock they were using for the .44 Mags (.430” dia)—had that one reamed out at the LGS I was working at with a .429 reamer, and it shot everything well cast and jacketed.

 

[SG29736]

It is a SS handgun so wasn't selling quick enough for Murdocks in Missoula. They red tagged this one for 449.00 NIB out the door. I couldn't pass it up. Numbered line bored cylinder. Their Competition Ready model for the SASS crowd. To me, it is the perfect woods gun for knocking around or horse packing.

I just pretend it is a custom nickel plated Colt. This works for me LOL I had Jeff Morrow saddle maker build a simple cross draw holster for it View attachment 660157
View attachment 660156

I was reading some info on these revolvers. It does mention that the cylinders and frames were paired together before assembly. The cylinders are numbered. But it made no mention of them being line bored.

 

[Michael W Cuber]

I was reading some info on these revolvers. It does mention that the cylinders and frames were paired together before assembly. The cylinders are numbered. But it made no mention of them being line bored.

Not sure if that’s what they were doing with the USFA Single actions, but I’ve seen some custom pistol smiths demonstrate the procedure on Ytube. I like insuring that any potential revolver has all its cylinders aligned well, and I’ve had a couple reamed for me, and done a couple myself—also had the opposite situation with .456 cylinder throats on an Italian Clone. I don’t mind having to get appropriate sized bullets if I can find something that shoots well in them. My Ruger Service-Six, and Taurus seem to have pretty normal / acceptable throats in relation to their barrel ID’s.

 

[SG29736]

The gun pictured shows "El Patron". Those are Uberti guns not USFA I believe. I have one of the USFA Rodeos in 45 Colt.

 

[Michael W Cuber]

The gun pictured shows "El Patron". Those are Uberti guns not USFA I believe. I have one of the USFA Rodeos in 45 Colt.

Riposte is not the one with the Uberti, he mentioned the extra detail regarding cylinders with the USFA. Think I replied to the wrong reply, got confused—sorry!

 

[4barrel]

I’ve got H-110, but I didn’t want to go that direction because it can’t be reduced, and, honestly, I don’t know if the Taurus would handle very many of those. I was trying for a load that might give me around 1100 fps. Not enough light here to use my Chrono, but I will this spring and see what these loads are actually doing. Might try some 2400 if I can scrounge some.

I made an earlier post but I just got a new 260 flat base Lyman mold and it drops at .434 and I bought a new Lyman sizer .432 for my Ruger SRH throats with a 2.5x7 Burris. The sizer should be here tomorrow. I will try to test some at 50 yards or longer. I am going to start with 2400 but I have H110 and 296 and several others. My buddy has a Freedom Arms 44 1 in 20'' twist and we can test this week end weather permitting. I have about 8 bullet weights in 44- 185-310 grain. Unique works good with cast bullets and I have some .WELL-the sizer came as I was typing.