[In service to His Majesty]

Originally posted by BOLANTEJ:
...the salesman told me that now i needed something that could really reach out and touch someone/thing...

He was pulling your chain.

Different calibers are used in different contexts. The .223 is used solely in a law enforcement context where engagements are always 100 yds or less. Within this short distance, the bullet is not only flat but the effects of crosswind are nearly nil. Take a .223 out to 500 yds and beyond in a moderate crosswind, and the light bullet gets bucked like a rookie cowboy on a wild stallion. Also, believe it or not, there is the "flinch factor." Law enforcement applications require a bullet to strike the medulla oblongata (tiny area at the base of the brain) to instantly incapacitate a hostake taker who may have a gun to somebody's head. A rifleman cannot afford to anticipate the recoil of a .308 and possibly throw the shot. Overpenetration is another matter; what lies beond the perpetrator? A .223 will do far less damage after passing through the perp than a .308. So, in short, the .223 is ideal in LE situations at 100 yds or less.

The .308 is the ideal caliber in military sniping situations. The bullet is about three times heavier than the .223, so it is much better in downrange crosswinds. A heavy bullet also retains more energy downrange than a light bullet considering they had equal muzzle velocity. Light bullets like the .223 "crap out" early. No worry about recoil throwing a medulla oblongata shot off either, because that's not what you're aiming for in military applications. The center mass of the torso is the target. If you don't kill the enemy at least you can wound him severely. This is acceptable. Also in military sniping situations, you don't want to engage less than 500 yds because the enemy might determine your position and track you. So it is necessary to engage further out. This is where the .308 shines because of the reduced crosswind effects and retained energy.

To sum it all up, you would never use a .223 to reach out and somebody. Leave that job to the .308 or the flat-shooting 3000+ fps .30 caliber screamer cartridges. But, as a tradeoff, these screamers are not as accurate as the .308. Buy a reloading manual and study what point blank means and what increased velocity does to accuracy. It is very relevant to this discussion. Point blank is widely misunderstood. It does not mean close up or execution style as it has been portrayed in the TV cop shows and movies.

I have the Remington 700 Police in the 26" barreled .308. I used to have the .300 Win. Mag. I sold it because I couldn't get the groups I desired. The increased velocity and short neck make this a horrible tackdriver in my experience. This is a hunting round, in my opinion, where extreme accuracy is not needed. Oh, hell. I probably just started a .308 vs. 300 Mag flame war. I hope not.

Take care,
Rob


[This message has been edited by In service to His Majesty (edited 10-19-2001).]

 

[In service to His Majesty]

Originally posted by Powderman:
Measured group: 3 rounds into .384 at 100 yards; five rounds into .468 at 100 yards.

That is a good point. I neglected to mention that I was shooting .300 Win Mag Federal Gold Medal with Sierra Matchking bullets. I still use Federal Gold Medal with Sierra Matchkings in .308, but to a much greater degree of accuracy than the .300 mag was able to produce.

As I wrote, it is just my opinion that the .300 mag is not as inherently accurate as the .308. I'm not saying it is fact.

Take care,
Rob

 

[In service to His Majesty]

Originally posted by jaydee:
context

That's the operative word here: context. I wrote in a law enforcement context. I did not throw out a blanket indictment of the .223.

After all, it does have it uses...rabbit, groundhog, squirrel, possum...but how it got into the Armed Forces inventory is completely beyond me.

Rob

 

[In service to His Majesty]

Originally posted by jaydee:
In Fact, most LE Sniper's don't use the .223, opting for the .308, and in some cases, the 300 WM because of...hard Targets like Auto Glass

It's all about choice really. I would not use a .308 or .300WM as a law enforcement close-in round. Nearly all barricaded gunman scenarios are urban. You see SWAT teams converving on houses all time, responding to these calls.

What's behind the perpetrator? A .223 will do a magnificent job on a skull at 100 yds. So will the .30s, but they will also exit the perp's head, crash through a wall or two, and kill little Susie as she is eating her bowl of Frosted Flakes while watching Bugs Bunny. These are just too dangerous for urban scenarios.

Again, it's only my opinion. I'm not a police tactics expert, nor do I play one on TV.

Rob

[This message has been edited by In service to His Majesty (edited 10-31-2001).]