1911Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone. I own one of the 145 or so demo 1911 pistols that were given to employees after WW2. My grandfather was the production manager from April 1943 to 1945. Has anyone heard of or seen a list of the employees whom they were given to? By the way my pistol is #16. Thank you for any help.
20210513_164910.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,986 Posts
I think yours is a legit RR presentation pistol. In Karl Karash's photo CD, he showed #61 (1944 or 1945) and your is marked the same way as that one. Karl noted the presentation pistols were made from late production parts, but were pulled before any military markings could be applied, which explained why it lacks normal USGI markings. Possibly only one batch of less than 200 presentation pistols produced.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
413 Posts
Oh my...
 
  • Like
Reactions: best.45

·
Administrator
Joined
·
74,378 Posts
Lincman1911, it looks like somebody accidentally reassembled it incorrectly at some point using the mainspring housing pin for the hammer pin, and I'd assume vice-versa as well. It's an easy fix, but you'll probably want to take care of it at some point.

It looks like a really neat pistol though and I'm sure we'd all like to see more pictures of it along with any more of the backstory that you can share.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pro Libertate

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
938 Posts
Lincman1911, it looks like somebody accidentally reassembled it incorrectly at some point using the mainspring housing pin for the hammer pin, and I'd assume vice-versa as well. It's an easy fix, but you'll probably want to take care of it at some point.

It looks like a really neat pistol though and I'm sure we'd all like to see more pictures of it along with any more of the backstory that you can share.
The Remington Rand "Give-Away" or whatever they are called are just one of the two series of pistols that RR produced. The ERRS series and the plain numbered guns are probably pistols that were used to try out new tooling or processes
The government inspectors were pretty anal about how government was accounted for and since the raw material was
allocated by the government, the inspectors had to be sure that it was accounted for. Scrap had to be accounted for.
Most of these pistols have no records. All WWII manufacturers except Colt made some of these give away guns. In addition to Remington Rand with their plain number and ERRS series, Ithaca made a series of highly finished pistols that were given to Govrenment and Military officials who had connections to Ithaca. The most famous example was one made for Eisenhower. Another was given to Frank J. Atwood, another to the Contracting officier for Ithaca, and a fourth
to Lt. Col George Pfann who was Gen. George Patton's Chief of Staff as well as an all American Football player from Ithaca. Other guns were probably given away but no records exist, The US&S Co. made a series of give away pistols which all observed examples appear to have some defect. The most obvious defect is the one shown in Clawson's big book which has a large forging void. These US&S pistols were apparently made in two series, both had a serial number with an "EXP" prefix The first series with the lowest serial numbers were apparently heavily buffed to remove any applied markings, and the second series were finished as were the delivered pistols but minus the military acceptance and property marks. These pistols would have had to have been scrapped since they were made with government owned raw material, and the "EXP" might have meant "Expensed" which is a common accounting term for Scrapped. The common wisdom seems to have chosen that the EXP meant "Experimental". However since most or all of these pistols have some defect that would cause it to be rejected, the tag Experimental seems pretty far fetched.
Even "The Singer Mfg. Co." made some extra pistols over the 500 deliverable pistols that ware specified in the
"Educational Contract" Most of these were informally "Given" to employees with the most where-with-all. (This was explained to me in an interview with the production engineer in charge of the pistol project at Singer (Irv Gross) who got one of the extra un-serialed extra pistols made by Singer. He did not remember how many extras there were.) All of these give away pistols are more than interesting, probably fascinating is more accurate.
Best Karl
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Absolutely incredible! You lucky sonofagun.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
74,378 Posts
Those were the Good Old Days when it wasn't considered a big deal to give guns away as gifts to people. Could you imagine Beretta giving away demo M9s now that their government contract is over? No doubt every last pin or screw was accounted for and destroyed if surplus.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top