RIA "soft steel" issues

1927 Views 14 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Big Pete10, 3 mo ago

Novice1886

Discussion Starter · 4 mo ago

Bought the RIA pro match 1911 as my first 1911 for around $700. The gun is a pretty cool blend of spartan GI looks and finish and upgraded features incl. match capable trigger and barrel and slide/frame fit, so it kind of meets you in the middle. The "inherent" accuracy wasn't there out of the box, but it is coming in nicely as the gun breaks in and I learn to shoot it better.

The problem I have with the gun is that it feels like every time I sneeze at the gun it develops pits or burrs on the frame. Dropping the hammer with the slide off a few times as I did the initial field strip and cleaning caused a nasty burr that locked the frame up totally. There is pitting on the frame rails that I have no clue how they got there, but I haven't done anything to the gun that warrants that kind of dama ge. Finally, the plunger tube unstaked to an extreme degree after only 300rds fired total in the gun. Not directly frame related, but potentially bad manufacture again. I have already paid $90 for repairs, and now must pay an additional $60 to resolve the plunger issue (staking tool, third party gunsmith, and FFL fees for warranty repair back to RIA all cost $60, ironically.)

Im still fine with the purchase considering I bought it in California and didn't have any real affordable options at that time anyways, but I think for my next 1911 I am going to stick to forged frames (Tisas). As much as I love 1911s, Im generally not willing to pay rifle prices for a pistol.

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Levian

· #2 · 4 mo ago

Novice1886 said:
Dropping the hammer with the slide off a few times as I did the initial field strip and cleaning caused a nasty burr that locked the frame up totally.

Don't do this. I don't care who made it, it can cause problems like this. The firing pin stop is made to be thumped by the hammer, the back of the frame is not.

Pitting on the rails sounds like some form of rust or other corrosion. 4140 steel doesn't like moisture whether it was cast or forged. Just something to keep in mind, it's beneficial to keep them well oiled.

Reactions: 5

Paxson

· #3 · 4 mo ago

Novice1886 said:
Dropping the hammer with the slide off a few times as I did the initial field strip and cleaning caused a nasty burr that locked the frame up totally.

The damage was caused by you, not the quality of the gun or the materials used.

Reactions: 3

Novice1886

Discussion Starter · #4 · 4 mo ago

Levian said:
Don't do this. I don't care who made it, it can cause problems like this. The firing pin stop is made to be thumped by the hammer, the back of the frame is not.

Pitting on the rails sounds like some form of rust or other corrosion. 4140 steel doesn't like moisture whether it was cast or forged. Just something to keep in mind, it's beneficial to keep them well oiled.

Yes, I learned the hard way not to do that. The rail damage is from some sort of impact digging out the rail, not rust. Likely some unintentional impact to the frame during gunsmithing (by me or RIA). I don't think anything has been done to the gun do justify that kind of damage though.

Chipss

· #5 · 4 mo ago

Odd, my soft steel rock is still rocking, 10 years later.

Reactions: 1

mkk41

· #6 · 4 mo ago

Well, as far as the frame goes, no steel is as soft as the hardest aluminum, or plastic.

Reactions: 3

gdm1952

· #7 · 3 mo ago

I read that RIA 1911 frames and slides are "Cast steel " as opposed to forged. Are Cast frames and slides really inferior?

Reactions: 1

mkk41

· #8 · 3 mo ago

gdm1952 said:
I read that RIA 1911 frames and slides are "Cast steel " as opposed to forged. Are Cast frames and slides really inferior?

Ruger firearms have had what is known as 'investment cast' frames and receivers since day one. Never heard any Ruger called inferior when it came to strength.

And practically any steel frame is stronger than an aluminum or plastic frame.

Reactions: 1

Paulskj

· #9 · 3 mo ago

Mine is at about 3500 rounds, no issues with barrel, slide or frame.

Reactions: 1

Novice1886

Discussion Starter · #10 · 3 mo ago

Yet again, did some gunsmithing and minor applied force yet again seemed overly "influential" on the steel. God forbid I drop it...

Anyways, I measured the trigger at a very crisp 3.5lbs with nice Sig-like forward brake. I will ride it out.

Novice1886

Discussion Starter · #11 · 3 mo ago

gdm1952 said:
I read that RIA 1911 frames and slides are "Cast steel " as opposed to forged. Are Cast frames and slides really inferior?

my opinion is that a cast frame can be as good as forged, but its more vulnerable to being soft/or poor quality than forged steel which undergoes a more rigorous process to test for weakness.

I do not believe that the cost saving measure of casting the frame (while forging the slide, by the way) is just bypassing some old wives tail of forged framing that most of the major manufacturers of 1911s adhere to.

makeitfrommetal.com

Cast vs Forged Steel: Which is Better? | Make it From Metal

Forging and casting are two of many ways to make metal parts. Whether you're doing this, or welding, or machining, each method has its own…

makeitfrommetal.com

mkk41

· #12 · 3 mo ago

Novice1886 said:
my opinion is that a cast frame can be as good as forged, but its more vulnerable to being soft/or poor quality than forged steel which undergoes a more rigorous process to test for weakness.

I do not believe that the cost saving measure of casting the frame (while forging the slide, by the way) is just bypassing some old wives tail of forged framing that most of the major manufacturers of 1911s adhere to.

Cast vs Forged Steel: Which is Better? | Make it From Metal

Forging and casting are two of many ways to make metal parts. Whether you're doing this, or welding, or machining, each method has its own…

makeitfrommetal.com

The cost-saving is in the machining.

And have of you metallurgists or experts on ''soft steel'' know exactly what type of steel the frame you're talking about is made from? Or know what the optimum hardness and temper for that type of steel is?

Have you actually done a Rockwell hardness test?

How about a spectro-analysis?

Didn't think so.

Reactions: 2

Novice1886

Discussion Starter · #13 · 3 mo ago

mkk41 said:
The cost-saving is in the machining.

And have of you metallurgists or experts on ''soft steel'' know exactly what type of steel the frame you're talking about is made from? Or know what the optimum hardness and temper for that type of steel is?

Have you actually done a Rockwell hardness test?

How about a spectro-analysis?

Didn't think so.

No, all I can do is relate my experiences with it.

More anecdotes: VERY soft working while chamfering/staking the plunger tube. Im glad I was so conservative working with it or else it might have been catastrophic.

On the positive side, the trigger pulls at 3.5lbs after a little trigger work. I can't complain too much.

12Bravo

· #14 · 3 mo ago

Cast steel can be heat treated just like forged steel can. And the only way to test how hard a frame, or any metal, is to perform a Rockwell hardness test. You can perform a file test to see if steel has been hardened at all but it won't tell you how hard the steel is.

I have not tested any of my RIA frames to see how hard they are since I no longer have easy access to a machine shop or the proper testing equipment. I retired as a journeyman machinist/tool and die maker in 2005.

Reactions: 1

Big Pete10

· #15 · 3 mo ago

I have a Citadel made be same folks who make Rock. 3000 rounds plus. Only issue except loose bbl. Fit at hood and rear sight dove tail way oversize, broken ejector at about 3000 rounds. Slide to frame fit is still good. It may have pits, pits are possible in castings or forgings you know. Not the most accurate gun I own. Good enough for IDPA and darn cheap.

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