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Discussion Starter #1
I had an interesting encounter the other day. I've had occasion to visit a local hospital several times over the last couple of months. At all the entrances, they have a sign posted to the effect: No Weapons Allowed per s. 790. That's the concealed weapons statute here in Florida. I finally had a chance Friday to seek out the administration office and was put in contact with their risk management executive.

This fellow was very courteous and originally a cop from very close to my home town. I politely challenged his signs, pointing out that the same s. 790 that prohibits concealed weapons in s. 790.01(1) also has provisions, s. 790.01(3) and 790.06, that give the right for concealed carry to valid concealed weapons permit holders. He immediately asked why I'd want to carry in a hospital that was supposed to be for healing. We discussed a few issues that included the 2nd Amendment and the Florida law. He conceded that they couldn't stop permit holders from carrying, although they (the hospital) continue to try to get legislation passed at the state level to give them the right to do so.

He cited a case in PRK where people were shot in an ER. I pointed out that criminals don't care what signs he posted, to which he replied that the incident involved a gun taken from either a police officer or security guard who wasn't paying attention. I pointed out that wouldn't be the case by the very definition of concealed carry in the law. He then asked if I would intervene if I encountered an "incident" in the hospital. I replied that the law provides for the use of deadly force to prevent a forcible felony such as a mass murder. He challenged that I might hit innocent bystanders. I replied that the law was clear that the shooter is responsible for where their bullets go. Besides, is it somehow better to have them shot by the murderer?

His last policy defense was that he could have me trespassed and removed by the police if the medical staff discovered my weapon and was so frightened that they couldn't function professionally. His job, afterall, was risk management and a gun in the hospital was too much risk. I pointed out again that by the definition of concealed carry, that shouldn't happen anyway, and that it was questionable that he even had the power to trespass anyone under Florida law if they weren't presenting an obvious hazard to safety, e.g., brandishing. He stated that the courts would have to decide that point, and I replied that the legislature already had.

We parted amiably at that point with no sale being made, although he now understands that at least one person knows and cares about their rights under the law. He knew the law well, and tried unsuccessfully to trip me up a couple of times in its finer points. IMO, the signs are an obvious attempt to bluff CWP holders unfamiliar with their full rights under Florida law.

I write this long post to encourage others to politely challenge attempts like this hospital's to deprive those who don't know the laws well of their rights. I'm not a lawyer or professional salesman, just an ordinary citizen. I know others on this board, also ordinary citizens, have done likewise in person and in writing. Only by knowing the law well and openly challenging attempts to circumvent or change it will we keep our right and freedom to carry.

Regards,
TBob

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"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them"
- George Mason, American Statesman (1725-92)
 

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I understand what you are saying and agree with you to a point. I am a police officer (23 years now) and a NRA life member. I must admit though that I think when dealing with private property, the owner should have the right to prohibit weapons, for whatever reason.

New Mexico just passed a concealed carry law. It gives individual property owners the right to "post" their property. Of course New Mexico already has some of the most liberal firearms laws anywhere including an admendment in the State Constitution assuring the individuals rights to own firearms.
 

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Well done, TBob. I, too, love to smoke out phonies. They never imagine that some dumb citizen will call them on trying to take away our rights under the law. (Who do they think they are? Bill and Hillary?)

I have posted a few times on other boards on this forum regarding a similar situation: Cops taking away guns (even temporarily) in benign interactions with citizens. I agree that it's appropriate sometimes, but, often, they have totally BS excuses for it. They need to be called on it IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
JMG,

Private property, yes. However, this hospital is a regional medical center. Just as one cannot discriminate in housing whether private or not, I don't believe a hospital can discriminate either. If it were a jewelry shop, I could just walk down the street to another if they posted. You don't have that option w/a hospital.

The discussion isn't over yet. I will contact the Florida Department of State next week and get their cut on the situation. There is no explicit provision in Florida law for posting against concealed carry. Even in the worst case, the hospital should be honest about their stand against the 2nd Amendment and Florida law, and not hide behind a misrepresentation of the law.

Thank you for your perspective.

Fremont,

"Bill and Hillary" LOL
There is a good quote out there somewhere that says to fear the government that fears your firearms. How many hundreds of millions paid the ultimate price for abuse of authority in the 20th Century alone--in Germany, Russia, PRC, Cambodia, etc.? Early Consitutional commentaries stated clearly that's why the founders wrote the 2nd Amendment, not to hunt gophers.

Regards,
TBob

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"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them"
- George Mason, American Statesman (1725-92)

[This message has been edited by TBob (edited 05-13-2001).]
 

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Good job, i havn`t seen any postings restricting carry up here, but im always looking.. I have to laugh when people ask those stoopid questions like, "why would you want to carry in a hospital" like a hospital is some sort of safe zone.. I went to the beach the other day and was aproached by two deputies on 4-wheelers, They began to tell me how they have declared this area of the beach a "state park" and it was a second degree misdemeanor to be parked where i was.. I told them i was not aware of that and they said well NOW you are, so i said have a nice day, and left sweating, as i was armed.. I didn`t know that it was a "state park" but i doubt they would have been interseted in my ignorance of that.. It is ridiculous, having to choreoghraph your movements trying not to break the law by carrying in a "restricted area".. -Gilmore

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ME,WE!
 

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I agree that if you start making a myriad of restrictions about carrying guns on public property then you take away the intent of a concealed carry law. Either you trust the citizens whom you give permits to or not. I think that if you have a permit issued by a govermental authority, you have the required training, and have meet all other requirement set by law, then you have the right to carry anywhere in public. I would still argue that there are places where it would not be appriopriate, ie, bars or liquor establishments. This is normally illegal in most States anyway. I also still say that if it is private property, then that person as a citizen has the right to ban weapons. You have the right as a citizen to go somewhere else.

On another note, let me say that the rank and file law enforcement officers are some of the best supporters of the 2nd Admendment that there are. Many belong to the NRA and firmly support the right for law abiding citizens to carry weapons. We do temper that with the need to go home alive after our day is done. So if we act a little on the "safe" side please understand. We do not know who the bad guys are sometimes. Please do not send me stories of how "bad cops" trampled on your rights. There are good cops and bad cops just like any other profession. The vast majority are hard working and dedicated people doing a job no one else wants to.
 

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Well said, JMG....although I need to slightly disagree on what I consider to be the main point. It relates to why many of the public say things like "C'mon......why can't the NRA just compromise a little?....Can't we all agree that assault weapons (etc, etc) are unnecessary?"

Giving up our civil rights (or so-called "privileges" like CCW) is not a compromise IMO. It's capitulation. Can't carry in a bar? That's not reasonable. Bars get held up and people get shot at--I want to be armed. What's the difference between that and having a CCW holder get all liquored up at home then strapping on their sidearm? No difference. If you're irresponsible, you're irresponsible.

In general, if you can carry a firearm legally, you should be able to do it wherever you want. Bar, courthouse, sitting in your car while being cited, etc. I refuse to sit down with the Million Moms and hammer out what is "reasonable." The Bill of Rights isn't open to negotiation IMO.
 

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JMG, how are NM's laws liberal as to firearms?? No concealed carry? As you have no concealed carry, you cannot reciprocate with the free state of Indiana, so when I am in NM I have to break the law in order to carry concealed.
If you want a good law, look at Indiana's law that dates to 1934. GLV
 
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