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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The problem is this: during Classic Pistol IPSC competition using a Taurus .45, when asked to Unload and Show Clear, I remove the magazine and pull the side back to comply. SOMETIMES, the gun pulls the round apart, spilling powder and leaving the LRN cast bullet still in battery! It requires a rod to knock the lead bullet out. Every round is put thro a Competition Gauge successfully before any match. The gun works well during the stages but this is a nuisance. It also happened with my Para P14 so it must be my reloading regime. I've never seen this problem posted before.......has anyone got an idea.
 

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My first guess is

OAL too long ? getting stuck in lands ?
 

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The problem is this: during Classic Pistol IPSC competition using a Taurus .45, when asked to Unload and Show Clear, I remove the magazine and pull the side back to comply. SOMETIMES, the gun pulls the round apart, spilling powder and leaving the LRN cast bullet still in battery! It requires a rod to knock the lead bullet out. Every round is put thro a Competition Gauge successfully before any match. The gun works well during the stages but this is a nuisance. It also happened with my Para P14 so it must be my reloading regime. I've never seen this problem posted before.......has anyone got an idea.
I think Bullseye got this for you

You know, when you post about a problem like this it would be helpful to have some numbers to work with like what "COL" and what "weight" you are running with this LRN bullet

Emotion is great....But numbers help more

:)
 

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+3.

What oal are you using?

Years ago I had a SA1911 (base model) that had a short chamber....had to load very short for standard 230rnl ammo. Then I started loading for a buddy who had a Ruger P90....only short oal ammo was 100% reliable in that one too. Only 2 guns I've seen like that, but I'm guessing that you load pretty close to the "manual" 1.275 oal.
 

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My first guess is

OAL too long. Getting stuck in lands.
Well, yes of course.

97.5% certain that would be the first point of investigation.




Note:
It is good that you used a gauge to check, I won't criticize that. It's a gauge.
But you always must check the gun, too. Many, many manufacturers don't
necessarily 'gauge' the guns they mass produce. The gauge tells you it 'ought to fit'.
But it doesn't tell you it's going to fit. Only your gun tells you that.
 

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As Nick A stated, check the gun

Very true, I once owned an M77 with a short throat, factory ammo would have been a problem but I have not shot factory ammo in over 25 years
 

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Looks like your problem has been identified by the experts. Shorten the OAL in small increments until round ejects properly.
 

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I wonder how well the bullets are held in the case if you can pull the bullet out as easily as it seems you can. Can you press the bullets deeper in the case by pressing them against the edge of a table? If you have a hammer bullet puller, put one in it and see how easily the bullet can be removed.

You may load them to a proper OAL, but the rounds may not maintain that OAL with all the violence associated with firing the pistol if they are not held tightly.
 

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I wonder how well the bullets are held in the case if you can pull the bullet out as easily as it seems you can. Can you press the bullets deeper in the case by pressing them against the edge of a table? If you have a hammer bullet puller, put one in it and see how easily the bullet can be removed.

You may load them to a proper OAL, but the rounds may not maintain that OAL with all the violence associated with firing the pistol if they are not held tightly.
I was thinking the same. Defiantly too long and maybe so long it's not getting enough of the bullet in the case to give adequate neck tension.

I wouldn't think it would be a short chambered pistol when it's happening in two different pistols
 

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OK, now that OAL has been beaten to death, I'm just as inclined to say that maybe you are not full-sizing your cases properly/completely. I am a little leary that a lead bullet a few thou into the rifling would cause it to be pulled from the case during extraction.

I think a bit more tension when re-sizing may help, as well as a marginal amount of taper crimp to simply remove the flaring.
 

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[Pulling bullets like that is common in rifle sports where they purposely jam bullets into the rifling.
Even with good neck tension, the tension is broken when the bullet jams into the lands
and sets back into the case, then upon extraction the bullet more easily slips free of the neck.]

He must check setback as mentioned by our good brothers shane, boomer, and snap.

But even if he finds them loose, he's still jamming bullets into the leade or lands.
That part is clear, whether he has loose neck tension or not.
His bullets must be knocked out with a rod (as he states in Post #1).
So we know they're jamming in there really tight!
 

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[Pulling bullets like that is common in rifle sports where they purposely jam bullets into the rifling.
Even with good neck tension, the tension is broken when the bullet jams into the lands
and sets back into the case, then upon extraction the bullet more easily slips free of the neck.]

He must check setback as mentioned by our good brothers shane, boomer, and snap.

But even if he finds them loose, he's still jamming bullets into the leade or lands.
That part is clear, whether he has loose neck tension or not.
His bullets must be knocked out with a rod (as he states in Post #1).
So we know they're jamming in there really tight!
In addition to the fine input given thus far I would add this. It is amazing how much force it can take to free a bullet from the lands or leade. I have had bullets pulled from rifle cases when working down an oal. These bullets were not crimped. But often we don't crimp rifle loads.
The point is it can get stuck good fairly easily. And you can generate enough force with a bolt , and slide I would imagine, to pull a bullet from case.
 

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Bullet jump

Another thing to investigate.... check the resizing die to make sure it is set properly and allows enough case neck tension on the bullet. Even if you have checked your OAL of the case and it is within spec, maybe the bullet is moving forward in the case due to inertia.....

In a semi auto, a bullet that is not held firmly by case neck tension may actually "jump" and become longer during recoil.....this would affect mainly the top round in the mag, since the length of the other rounds are contained within the mag.

I have seen reloads used in heavy recoiling revolvers with a light crimp actually move forward and prevent the cylinder from turning. It may be possible the bullet of the top round of a mag is slightly inching forward under recoil from bullet jump, which would then get pushed into the rifling when the round is fed into the chamber....
 

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This is from Sierra's article on handloading for Service Rifles. Anyone ever notice this in a semi-auto pistol?

There are two distinctly different forces that need to be considered: those that force the bullet deeper into the case, and those that pull it out of the case. When the round is stripped from the magazine and launched up the feed ramp, any resistance encountered by the bullet risks having it set back deeper into the case. Due to the abrupt stop the cartridge makes when the shoulder slams to a halt against the chamber, inertia dictates that the bullet will continue to move forward. This is exactly the same principle a kinetic bullet puller operates on, and it works within a chamber as well.

Here is one way to check OAL in your pistols.

 

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After you've gotten the bullets out, do they show signs of having touched the rifling? Any other tell-tale signs of what's happening? I suspect, as others have said that they are touching the rifling and then add to that (possibly) a tad too light a crimp are they're coming apart.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Many thanks everyone.
1.The rounds AOL was 1.26".
2. The bullet was Lee cast 230 grain LRN.
3. I can't measure the crimp but it was beyond that stipulated by LFCD. Almost 1 full turn more.
4. The powder used was Power Pistol 6.3 grains.

I had a few hiccups during the CoF but I think this was due to me Limp Wristing. The 6.3 PP is quiet a wallop. Returning to Classic, new magazines yaddy yaddy....... None of this worries me but this bullet stuck in the barrel is galling.
The next day I went to the range with 200 rounds. 100 were my competition loads and 100 were practice bucket. I had 1 failure to eject, and all rounds were extracted with no problems. What gets me is that EVERY round is put thro a Wilson Pistol Gauge sitting flush and neat.
 

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My first guess is

OAL too long ? getting stuck in lands ?
I believe that'd be the only possibility. What else would cause the bullet to stick in the lands, if the bullet's not loaded into the lands? I also believe it's not advisable to use the FCD with lead bullets.
 
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