1911Forum banner

S.i.s.?

7K views 68 replies 33 participants last post by  Kruzr 
#1 ·
Sure is slick? I say that cause the new type of finish put on this model is very slippery even without oil on it. The slide serrations aren't agressive enough for this type of finish IMO. I try picturing myself with either wet, bloody, sweaty or cold numb fingers sling shotting the slide on this one... Overall a very nice weapon but for defense the "slickness" would have to be addressed. The specimen I saw (5") was put together well for $1200 without the Swartz safety.
 
#2 ·
Kimber got their start by making a sensible .45 auto with all the practical modifications shooters needed, and little that they didn't. Unfortunately I see nowadays they're mostly into "designer" 1911's that are more at home being photographed in the hands of some well-dressed sexy male fashion model than being used for actual combat. If this is where Kimber's headed then they're in serious trouble. I thought the Raptors were bad enough, but this slicker than snot SIS model with cute serrations you can't even grab onto is completely ridiculous.
 
#29 ·
I agree. IMO, Kimber puts way too much value in their marketing people's opinion. They have way to many versions of the 1911. I think they could cut down in advertising and pass the savings on to the consumer.
 
#3 ·
I'm with you Dana...Been a loyal Kimber fan since the start, and have a bunch of them (none newer than 1999). Sorry to see the flagship of factory customs sell out to cutie-pie models. If they would've stuck to their original "make it like they want it" mantra, we'd still be seeing quality 1911's. Instead, they've gone full-bore balls to the walls production, and while they're selling, the quality has gone down the tubes! It'll catch up to them sooner or later.
Tracy
 
#4 ·
An early (2xxx) Clackamas Kimber is on the long list of handguns I used to own but foolishly sold off. It was the most accurate handgun I ever owned. Take my advice, when you find a gun that looks and shoots great never let it go no matter how badly you need to come up with some cash. Go without eating or lose the house if you have to, just never give up a good pistol! Odds are the manufacturer will screw with their products and/or manufacturing and you'll never be able to buy another new one like it again.
 
#5 ·
I agree. I had a Series I Ultra Carry that was stolen. It was later recovered and returned to me but I had already replaced it with another Kimber. I sold the UC because I didn't need another carry gun and I needed the $$$. Big mistake. I'll never sell a good gun again. M other two Series I's are here to stay.
 
#6 ·
Since Kimber has a full catalog of models and they didn't drop anything to make this model, I have no problem with it's introduction.

However, I haven't experienced HOW slick they are.

I did see a pic and it looks like the rear site is made in such a way for a weak hand malfunction drill? If so, I am impressed actually.


Greyson
 
#7 ·
I really like the sights on the guns. They make it easy to rack the gun one handed. I like the finish. I have a HUGE problem with the SIS cocking serrations. They are extreamly slippery. I'd go so far as to say (for me) they are almost unusalble. Weather your chosen TTP is to sling shot or not, you have to chamber a round first. I guess that is why the made the rear sight like it is, cause you can't use the serrations.;)
 
#8 ·
Looked at one New Years Eve and yes they are slick. I'm glad it wasn't me, but I couldn't get enough of a grip to clear it when it was handed to me. Other than that I liked it being a pre-series II and the lack of a guide rod in the 5" model. What was Kimber thinking. This is for a LE Unit?:confused:
 
#10 · (Edited)
agreed... if they did this same gun in basic old stainless with normal cocking serrations I might even think about buying it..heck if they did a 5" version without front cocking serrations I might even think seriously about buying it...

I wonder if they have SIS vanity plates on the department cars...
Can't wait for Kimber's CSI, and NCIS versions to come out.... :dope:
 
#11 ·
I wonder if they have SIS vanity plates on the department cars...
Can't wait for Kimber's CSI, and NCIS versions to come out.... :dope:
Next it'll be the "Kimber Dub Edition" with optional high polished or satin finished, either gold or platinum grill. :D

I like the "idea" of the SIS but the SIS just looks silly. Coupled with all the feedback that confirm it's slick, doesn't make sense and sounds like that was for aesthetics only, function was pushed back to the back burner.

I wonder if you could give the high surface a treatment that would not take much away from the aesthetics of the SIS but would add grip? Light checkering or cross cuts????
 
#14 · (Edited)
I guess I'm just dumb. I always figured that when the elite of the elite (Special Investigative Section - one step beyond SWAT) spent eighteen months working with Kimber, they would come up with what THEY need. Then when Kimber is able to get them to release it to the public - GEEZ, here I thought it was a great gun. Maybee I should just sell both of mine.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/downloads/SIS.pdf

After spending several hours shooting my SIS Custom (5") yesterday, NOPE I'll keep mine. Best shooting 1911 I've been near.
 
#17 · (Edited)
...and they insisted that the slide serrations spell out SIS so the SWAT guys wouldn't pick up the wrong 1911's in the locker room ?
Really, 18 months and they came up with a series 70, GI plugged 1911 with a logo instead of cocking serrations and a finish that's slippier than a soapy eel ? Oh and a copy of Yost's rear sight...
I was under the impression that the SIS did a lot of undercover work. In that situation, not sure I'd want my weapon spelling out my employer...
 
#15 ·
yep, definitely too slick. They made the mistake of beveling the edges of the SIS in the slide. Combined with the finish (which looks nice, BTW, attractive shade of gray/black) its way too slick.

Otherwise I would buy one, would be nice to have a series I kimber without a rail (already got a warrior)
 
#21 ·
I guess the SIS fills a much needed "taticool" role on private firing ranges all across the country. I'm sure when you whip out your slick as snot finished handgun with SIS cut into the useless slide serrations that everyone will stare in wonder thinking "is he really a super secret special agent with SIS?".

It would be like me wearing a SEAL t-shirt and having the Trident engraved into my handgun(s).

Oh well, I guess I'm just too practical. I should give the cosmetic tacticool pistols a try sometime I suppose... maybe I'll be mistaken for a special operator and get some free range time.

Maybe we can petition Kimber to make us a SWAT pistol with the letters SWAT cut into the slide serrations. We could get it with a slick urban cammo paint job too!

:biglaugh:
 
#25 ·
say wat you want

Ya i agree - after putting over 3000+ rounds through my SIS Pro with no problems i'll be stickin it out with this Kimber. The finish may look slick but it really is just stainless steel with Kimbers KimPro II cote. The checkered front strap also keeps it firmly in my hands while unloading
 
#27 ·
The joke with this gun is CA. Reading the magazine article it seems that LAPD officers get the pleasure of buying the gun without FPS while the rest of us are stuck with it. Will someone please sue CA and either force PD's to use guns on "safe" list or allow citizens to purchase same guns deemed safe enough for PD's? Either it's unsafe or it's not.
 
#28 ·
The joke with this gun is CA. Reading the magazine article it seems that LAPD officers get the pleasure of buying the gun without FPS while the rest of us are stuck with it.
They also get to buy full auto and we don't.

But what the heck. It's Kalifornia
 
#30 ·
Update:

I had the chance to paw one of these SIS's (full sized) yesterday.

No pistol is perfect. I pretty much buy Ed Browns these days anyway.

But if I were in the market for another Kimber, I would really be looking at this model. I was fairly impressed. But I didn't shoot it.

I personally didn't feel the slide was slick. And if it's Kimpro, it's the same as what I have on my Gold Combat RL II. I don't work the action of a 1911 with just my thumb and index fingers. I do a thumb rearward fingers over the slide.
Not slick at all in my opinion.

Not a huge fan of the ambi safety. And it does suffer from the notorious non-positive TS that all Kimbers seem to have. I also don't prefer the plain plug. I prefer checkered. But I can live with it and it is easily replaced.

I am most impressed by the rear site. Very brave in Kimber's part. Most mall-ninjas want a novak style site. Their solution is dorky looking. It's simply a block with a channel. Not a copy of the Yobo sight in any way. Except function. It works for one-handed clearance drills. I like it! Probably my favorite feature Kimber has ever come out with.

I also feel the solid trigger is a nice touch.

Now I don't drink from the Kimber kool-aid bowl. I am an Ed Brown guy actually. As previously mentioned, I don't like the thumb-safety. And I mean it is too soft to knock-off. ALL Kimbers have this problem. (Sig C3 doesn't) Which is a big deal on my carry 1911s.

And the slickness issue: If it is too slick for the finger chargers, truth is, that crappy bake-on finish will wear like crap and roughen up pretty quickly.:biglaugh:

Next to my 1997 Series I Gold Match, this SIS is my favorite Kimber...as long as it shoots.

Regards,
Greyson
 
#31 ·
I have Kimpro on my pro elite..the coating on the SIS was definately slicker and I don't believe it was down to oil or similar on the surface. Maybe there has been formulae variations as sometimes happens.
I wasn't saying that the rear sight is an aesthetic knock off of the YoBo. I was just mocking the magazine puff piece and advertising suggesting it's functionality is something new and jolly super that Kimber came up with after 18 months of consultation with SIS...
As i said, if the pistol was offered without the coating, (how about melonite or tennifer instead ? ), and with old fashioned up'n'down slide cuts, i'd be seriously tempted. No schwartz, GI recoil set up, solid trigger, even that rear sight :p It's one of the better guns Kimber has put out lately. This, along with the Warrior and Target match, is maybe an indication that Kimber is moving slightly in the right direction... It'll be interesting to see if any of those features migrate to any of the other models in their line, especially the non railed 5" guns
 
#32 ·
The anti-gun L.A. (Los Angeles) Times and some of the local SoCal ACLU/Commie types don't think it's a very good idea for Kimber to be allowing "commercial sales of these highly specialized weapons to the public". :rolleyes:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-sis12jan12,0,3495142.story?coll=la-home-center

anti-gun LA Times: said:
January 12, 2008
To the dismay of some city leaders, a gun company is marketing a line of high-end pistols named for the LAPD's Special Investigation Section, an elite group of plainclothes detectives with a history of fatally shooting suspects.

The guns for the undercover unit were created at the request of the Los Angeles Police Department. Kimber, a Yonkers, N.Y.-based gun maker, is marketing a slightly modified version to the public, touting the weapons as the "hot new SIS pistols" on the company's website.

Controversial gun
Controversial gun
click to enlarge

For each of the more than $1,000 guns sold, Kimber says it will donate $15 to the nonprofit Los Angeles Police Memorial Foundation, which provides financial support to officers and their families in times of death, injury or illness.

But news that a weapon is being marketed with an "SIS" serration -- a clear reference to the LAPD -- was met with criticism from city and civil rights leaders.

"It is very disturbing," said Councilman Jack Weiss. "If any member of the public is shot with one of these guns or, heaven forbid, a cop is shot with one these guns, what would be the explanation?"

LAPD officials said the department does not endorse the gun but has no control over how the manufacturer markets the weapon.

Regarding questions about the weapons marketed to the public, Police Chief William J. Bratton dismissed the topic as a "nonissue," calling it "foolish."

Capt. Kyle Jackson, head of the Robbery Homicide Division who oversees the SIS, said the department did not request that the initials be placed on the guns it ordered. And, he said, Kimber did not need the department's permission to sell the modified versions.

"It isn't trademarked," Jackson said. "No one at the LAPD is profiting from this. This is not an endorsement."

But Jackson said he believed the product "enhances" the LAPD's image.

"It says that people are impressed with the training and equipment of the section," he said.

He noted that many gun manufacturers market weapons to the public by citing the law enforcement agencies and military branches that carry them.

In promoting the company's SIS pistols, Kimber's website features an article published this month by a national weapons magazine that includes photographs the publication says are of current and former SIS officers.

The LAPD began using four models of the single-action, semiautomatic .45-caliber handguns late last year. LAPD officials said it took 18 months to develop the weapons, which they said are designed to be lighter and more easily concealed than the guns regularly used by the department.

Kimber's SIS models for the LAPD and the public can be cocked and fired with one hand, in case the other is injured or otherwise unavailable. The company designed various models of the weapon for different police uses: two 5-inch versions for officers' belts and vests, and the smaller 4- and 3-inch versions for the stakeout vehicle and off-duty protection, respectively.

LAPD officials said the SIS pistol sold to the public has a different firing mechanism and gun sights. The LAPD version has a special safety firing pin.

"There is something fundamentally wrong with the commercial sales of these highly specialized weapons to the public," said civil rights attorney Carol Sobel.

Police Commission Vice President John Mack said he is concerned that the marketing of the guns seems to play off the Special Investigation Section's record, which includes payouts in civil rights lawsuits.

The SIS has long been a source of controversy, which has stemmed from the unit's practice until recent years of following suspects and waiting for them to commit crimes before confronting them.

The strategy has sometimes turned deadly; at least 37 suspects have been killed by SIS detectives since the unit was founded in 1965, according to police records.

LAPD officials have defended the section's work, saying detectives needed strong measures to go after the most treacherous criminals.

The unit was responsible for solving the murder of Bill Cosby's son, Ennis, and worked on the Alphabet Bomber and Hillside Strangler cases.

Since Bratton's appointment six years ago, SIS detectives have stopped waiting to catch suspects in the act before making arrests, cut back on the use of deadly force and started calling in backup from uniformed officers.

Jackson, the captain of the division, said the unit has changed over the years.

"This is not your grandfather's SIS. This is the SIS for the 21st century," he said. "We bring in the most qualified people for SIS. We bring in a wide range of diversity.

"Scores and scores of operations occur without a single use of force," Jackson said. "If they didn't have reverence for life, I wouldn't allow them to be there."

Ignatius Chinn of the state Justice Department's Bureau of Firearms said there are past examples of guns created for law enforcement agencies, and embossed with their insignias, being sold to the public.

In the 1970s and '80s, he said, Smith & Wesson sold a California Highway Patrol .38 Special and the Texas Ranger .357 Magnum. Chinn said he believed that like those weapons, the SIS pistols eventually will become collector's items.
 
#35 ·
Just bought a full size yesterday. Does NOT have fps (series II) which was the main reason I bought it. I could live without the "SIS" logo for slide serrations, but honestly it's not noticable enough to be an issue. Gun is indeed slick feeling, but again, not enough that I feel it to be the issue some try to make out. Hype aside, this a a great pistol. It reminds me of the first Kimber I bought way back when they first came out. Very nicely fit, finished and everything works smoothly. If I could have bought this same pistol (non series II with internal extactor) with the same features I was looking for (night sights, checkered frontstrap. bumped beavertail safety) without the SIS marketing", I would have. But this is too nice of a pistol to pass up just because the pistol has a little marketing hype going on.
Oh, btw, the "sprue" issue on the grip safety is also nothing like it was made out to be in another thread. I think this whole series of Kimbers (SIS) will suffer a lot of complaints from people who only look at the "style", and never handle it. In which case they will be missing out on a really nice 1911.
 
#59 ·
glocker1911,
Well stated. I just picked a Kimber SIS (pro) 4" yesterday. I checked it out carefully. The SIS is very well put together. The fit, and finish is second to none. For any nay sayers, don't knock this 1911 until you have seen, and handled one, you will be impressed!:rock:
Also, it has "NO SWARTZ SAFETY!"
 
#36 ·
LAPD officials said the SIS pistol sold to the public has a different firing mechanism and gun sights. The LAPD version has a special safety firing pin.
How are the "gun sights" different on the real SIS pistol issued to officers?

Also, the issued firearm has the Swartz safety whereas the civilian model doesn't? Am I the only one that finds this hard to believe?
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top