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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Got my new 7" inch Smith & Wesson Model 41 to the range today.
Put 90 rounds down range. Fired CCI Green Tag, CCI Standard
Velocity, and CCI Blazer ammo. 10 shot groups at 25 yards.

Not real thrilled with my groups. Averaged around two inches, from
a rest. Best was about 1.70. Green Tag ammo seemed to have more
vertical dispersion, while the Standard Velocity had more lateral
dispersion. Initial results say Green Tag not worth the extra money
over Standard Velocity ($14.99 vs. $6.99).

Last 10 was off-hand, standing with one-handed grip. 10 rounds of
Green Tag aimed at center target. Alot of vertical dispersion.

The gun ran flawlessly. Felt good in my hands. Frankly, with the
sight picture I had, I thought the groups were going to be alot
tighter. I'm saying I think I held it on target more accurately
than the gun shot, when using a rest.

Okay, a couple of questions for you .22 target shooters:

- How often do you clean your gun? I shot 90 rounds with no cleaning
at all.

- What sight picture do you use? I used center of black dot. At 25
yards, it was just a dot. Do you recommend center hold, or placing
the whole dot on top of the front post (i.e., holding a 6 o'clock base
of target circle)?


Joe
 

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Long post, but worth it

Well, you sure got one helluva pistol my friend! You will need to run good ammo through the gun to get the most out of it. Here's what I'd do:
Find a good rimfire ammo dealer that sells match ammo like Zanders or Champions Choice. Now, my 41 loves Eley Match EPS, but that don't mean crap. You have to try a bunch of lots of the same ammo until you find the lot that shoots the best. Now after you've invested in 5 or 6 expensive boxes of test" lots, you call the guy and order as much of THAT SPECIFIC LOT as you can afford. Remeber you need the exact lot number, which will include velocity, date made, machine number, and run number.
I'm lucky because I have a rimfire match ammo dealer in my PPC league and it's pretty easy for me. Nonetheless though, most companies know how the rimfire guy tests and they will work with you.
I would try Match EPS with 1052 velocity first. I'm betting for sure you will quickly find a lot in that velocity that will drive tacks. Then get out the credit card and cry for awhile.
My ammo guy tells me it's nothing for a guy to buy 7 or 8 boxes of different lot numbers, then call back in a week and spend 5000 bucks on the lot that worked. Serious match rimfire guys are a different breed. Ammo is everything to them, since you can't tweak your loads like the centerfire guys.
For plinking, try a few different lots of Rem Subsonic. I found a big stash of a 2005 lot at the local Sportsmans Warehouse that shoots around 3/4 inch at 25 yards. Think I paid 21 bucks a brick. Bought all he had, 18 bricks.
3/4 inch is ok, but your gun will easily do better with match ammo. Much better. Good luck!
 

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Try some of these:

SK Subsonic (what mine likes)
Wolf Match Target
Ely EPS
SK Standard Plus
CCI Standard (what S&W uses)
 

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As the other gentlemen said, keep testing ammo until you find the one. As for cleaning there are so many different schools of thought on the subject that to test those waters here may cause a boil. The 41 is a breeze to break down so cleaning isn't an issue, go as needed. Ninety shots is nothing, but being a new gun I would have been tempted to break it in like a rifle.

Btw, nice choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for input, guys. My range has a rimfire match this coming
Saturday morning. I'm planning to go to talk with the shooters
about what ammo they use, where they get it, and their cleaning
rituals.

Rifle breakin rituals involve clean, shoot, clean, shoot, clean, shoot,
clean, shoot, clean, shoot, clean, shoot, shoot, clean, shoot, shoot,
etc. I've never been convinced it's necessary. And far to big of
a pain in the heiny.


Joe
 

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Extra $$$ ammo

Is NOT worth it in the 41. I've tried a lot of different ammo in my 41. CCI standard velocity is it's favorite. But I'll give you a weird little tip that will give you better accuracy, at least it did for me: weigh your ammo. I'm not kidding. One time after doing some reloading, I had my electronic scale on and for the giggles, started weighing CCI standard velocity ammo. There was quite a difference in weight! So what I did was put them in lots by their weights and went to the range a couple days later. I found the 2 weights that worked the best for my 41 at 25 and 50. It made a huge difference. I believe, if I remember correctly, that my average went up around 30 points!! Now I'm not sure if the weight difference is the weight of what ends up coming out the tube or the weight is different amounts of powder, but try weighing a couple sleeves of ammo and you will be very suprised at the fluctuation. This gave much better (and cheaper!) results than paying a lot more for more expensive ammo.
 

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Mike Bassar said:
Well, you sure got one helluva pistol my friend! You will need to run good ammo through the gun to get the most out of it. Here's what I'd do:
Find a good rimfire ammo dealer that sells match ammo like Zanders or Champions Choice. Now, my 41 loves Eley Match EPS, but that don't mean crap. You have to try a bunch of lots of the same ammo until you find the lot that shoots the best. Now after you've invested in 5 or 6 expensive boxes of test" lots, you call the guy and order as much of THAT SPECIFIC LOT as you can afford. Remeber you need the exact lot number, which will include velocity, date made, machine number, and run number.
I'm lucky because I have a rimfire match ammo dealer in my PPC league and it's pretty easy for me. Nonetheless though, most companies know how the rimfire guy tests and they will work with you.
I would try Match EPS with 1052 velocity first. I'm betting for sure you will quickly find a lot in that velocity that will drive tacks. Then get out the credit card and cry for awhile.
My ammo guy tells me it's nothing for a guy to buy 7 or 8 boxes of different lot numbers, then call back in a week and spend 5000 bucks on the lot that worked. Serious match rimfire guys are a different breed. Ammo is everything to them, since you can't tweak your loads like the centerfire guys.
For plinking, try a few different lots of Rem Subsonic. I found a big stash of a 2005 lot at the local Sportsmans Warehouse that shoots around 3/4 inch at 25 yards. Think I paid 21 bucks a brick. Bought all he had, 18 bricks.
3/4 inch is ok, but your gun will easily do better with match ammo. Much better. Good luck!
And my wife thought me spending $200.00 bucks for ammo was excessive!:eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Seven Ring said:
Is NOT worth it in the 41. I've tried a lot of different ammo in my 41. CCI standard velocity is it's favorite. But I'll give you a weird little tip that will give you better accuracy, at least it did for me: weigh your ammo. I'm not kidding. One time after doing some reloading, I had my electronic scale on and for the giggles, started weighing CCI standard velocity ammo. There was quite a difference in weight! So what I did was put them in lots by their weights and went to the range a couple days later. I found the 2 weights that worked the best for my 41 at 25 and 50. It made a huge difference. I believe, if I remember correctly, that my average went up around 30 points!! Now I'm not sure if the weight difference is the weight of what ends up coming out the tube or the weight is different amounts of powder, but try weighing a couple sleeves of ammo and you will be very suprised at the fluctuation. This gave much better (and cheaper!) results than paying a lot more for more expensive ammo.

Very interesting. Makes sense. As the bullet is by far the heaviest
part of the cartridge, you are probably sorting by bullet weight. And
different bullet weights would be expected to have different POI.

What is your cleaning regimen?


Joe
 

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40dcoe said:
Okay, a couple of questions for you .22 target shooters:

- How often do you clean your gun? I shot 90 rounds with no cleaning
at all.

- What sight picture do you use? I used center of black dot. At 25
yards, it was just a dot. Do you recommend center hold, or placing
the whole dot on top of the front post (i.e., holding a 6 o'clock base
of target circle)?


Joe
1. Seldom, maybe every 1,000 rounds, but basically when I notice a drop-off in accuracy or functioning.
2. Six o'clock hold works for me, brings my groups in dramatically.
3. +1 on trying all sorts of ammo. CCI has never worked for my 41, though my target rifle loves Green Tag. For the 41, I'm currently working through one particular lot of Remington/Eley.
 

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Weighing your ammo is big plus to the road of tighter groups, the whole key is getting bullets that are consistant and that's one of the best methods to achiving it.

As for break-in, yes it's shoot and clean for a number of shots, and then shoot a string of shots and clean. PITA but YMMV if it works for you or not. High end gun deserves at least a little front end love, No? As for regular cleaning their are rimfire guy's who will only clean the bore after it appears that they are starting to lose accuarcy. This doesn't mean they are not wiping down or cleaning the actions every time after range use. I may not personally clean the bore to white glove inspection, but it does get some attention after every brick.

Hay you've got yourself a beautiful pistol, anybody who knows anything will not deny that, go out enjoy it as you see fit. Just keep in mind what works for one pistol may not work for yours, every barrel has a mind of it's own. Congradulations.
 

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Cleaning regimen

That was a real big eye opener for me when I started shooting bullseye. Since I was a kid (many moons ago) and throughout my fun times with Uncle Sam and some other groups, I always cleaned my firearms after any session no matter how many rounds went out the business end. Then I started shooting bullseye and was STUNNED to find that, once zeroed in, they wouldn't do a real good cleaning till after that season ended unless, like stated before, they started a drop in accuracy. I was cleaning my pistols every time and thjought that they were pulling my leg as they are a pretty good group of guys with great senses of humor. But lo and behold, they were right. My bullseye guns get cleaned when the season ends or absolutely warranted while my "Go-to guns" always get cleaned after every extensive range/training session.
As far as sight picture, I was using 6 o'clock when I had the 5 inch barrell on the 41, then last year I got a red dot on a 7 inch to try for awhile.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Seven Ring said:
Is NOT worth it in the 41. I've tried a lot of different ammo in my 41. CCI standard velocity is it's favorite. But I'll give you a weird little tip that will give you better accuracy, at least it did for me: weigh your ammo. I'm not kidding. One time after doing some reloading, I had my electronic scale on and for the giggles, started weighing CCI standard velocity ammo. There was quite a difference in weight! So what I did was put them in lots by their weights and went to the range a couple days later. I found the 2 weights that worked the best for my 41 at 25 and 50. It made a huge difference. I believe, if I remember correctly, that my average went up around 30 points!! Now I'm not sure if the weight difference is the weight of what ends up coming out the tube or the weight is different amounts of powder, but try weighing a couple sleeves of ammo and you will be very suprised at the fluctuation. This gave much better (and cheaper!) results than paying a lot more for more expensive ammo.

I got the chance to weigh some cartridges yesterday. I was expecting
to have to get an electronic scale to do it, but I tried my old beam
scale first. To my surprise, it was very easy to segregate them into
three groups by different weight. I drop a cartridge in the pan, and see
where the beam settles. I'm looking forward to shooting groups with
the different weight groups.

Actual weight doesn't matter at this point, I'll see how they all group.
You said that two weights work best for you, so I may get to where
one group is excluded. Wondering what I'll do with the excluded ammo.


Joe
 

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I didn't go through any kind of special "break-in" procedure at all with my 41. I used the factory 5" heavy barrel for a few years and then switched to a Clark 5" barrel to save a little weight. My accuracy results with CCI-SV (with both barrels) were much better than what you are showing.

My Clark barrel has a tighter chamber than my factory barrel and after about three hundred rounds, functioning will begin to slow down a little. I don't clean it vigorously, rather I just swab out the chamber with a q-tip dipped in Hoppe's 9, and brush off the breechface with a toothbrush. Every couple of thousand of rounds I'll do a detail-clean (or unless it otherwise needs it such as being shot in the rain).
 
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