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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I just received word from a customer of mine about some guy shooting himself in the leg at an IDPA indoor championship. I might add that at this same club at a different match a guy was pointing a loaded gun back up range and nothing was done about it. After viewing the video of another guy making a mag change, pointing the gun back up range with his finger on the trigger I have to wonder why safety infractions are not handled in a better manner.
Before someone takes this out of context I'm not bashing IDPA or any of the shooting sports.
I have shot in Steel matches, Pin matches, Action Pistol matches, USPSA matches and Single Stack matches all over the USA; the safety infractions I've seen have been few but the ones I have wittnessed the shooter was DQed on the spot.

My question is, why is IDPA so lax on safety infractions?

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Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 

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One thing I've noticed at some Level I (Club) USPSA matches, a shooter commits a DQ'able safety infraction....is DQ'ed and then asks the MD if they can continue shooting for no-score....and in some instances they are allowed to. This practice needs to stop right now. It shouldn't matter if the DQ happens at a club match or higher level match. DQ's are for safety reasons and allowing shooter a "DQ mulligan" is just inviting trouble should they continue and do something worse.

So back to your question...it could be that these infractions happened at the club level and the same (misguided) prevailing attitude applied there?
 

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I have DQed and have seen shooters DQed for safety violations. Sounds like this club needs a review of safety and gun handling issues. Can't blame the entire IDPA organization.
 

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I have seen the "DQ mulligan" that vapors refers to at both IDPA and IPSC matches.

Shooter came a long way to an IDPA sanctioned match, made a 270deg turn on his first stage and was promptly and rightly disqualified. Fine so far. Til I saw him later in the day shooting right along as though nothing had happened. Not for score but still a proven unsafe (Master class!) shooter on the range with a gun. Ick.

The last IPSC match I ever ROed, a 3-gun, I DQed the guy who slung his shotgun back over his shoulder in my face to reload. When the scores came out, I was amazed to see that he had a DNF for that one stage and had been through everything else, and I was NOT running the last stage. But he had friends at the stats table.

I have seen more cases of "cut the new guy some slack" at IDPA because that seems to attract more beginners than IPSC, but it happens in both. I think that a very bad precedent, if the novices don't get penalized for dangerous behavior, they are not going to make any effort to learn safe procedures.

I told one SO that either the guy who swept me went home or I did. He gave the (new) shooter a "kinder and gentler" DQ because I was 1. right and 2. a regular shooter he knew he didn't want to run off.
 

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SatCong said:
Where I shot at if you were DQ, you were done , you went home.:rock:
Around here, most folks show some class after being DQ'd by staying and helping score and paste or paint targets. They know that they messed up and accept the consequences.
 

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I shoot IDPA with two local clubs. I have seen three DQ's and in all cases it was handled correctly. The SO stopped the shooter,had him clear and holster his weapon,put his arm on his shoulder and gently but firmly explained what the shooter had done. He then asked the shooter if he knew what he had done wrong.

They told the shooter to not get down on himself but safety has to come first. They were instructed to secure there weapons and then come back and watch the match and interact with the other shooters,help paste and do whatever.

They were instructed to go over all aspects of safety, to practice safety and to come and shoot the next match with no hard feelings.

The shooters took it well and were treated well by the other shooters who all agreed with the DQ.

It has to be done or the potential is for someone to get hurt or killed.

One instance was a ND while reloading. The pistol was pointed downrange. The other two was shooters retreating and turning 270 and pointing there weapons up range.
 

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It takes someone who is both very patient and very firm to be a good Range Safety Officer at matches. Also need a wise Match Director to pick out such folks.

My IDPA DQ'ing story involves a shooter who didn't know how the decocker on his Beretta 92 worked. Nor did he understand that the muzzle needs to be pointed downrange, not just down, when decocking and reholstering a gun between short strings of fire.

Funny thing (kinda aggravating at the time) was that the MD and I tried to speak to this fellow some more as he packed up after the disqualification. Knew it was hopeless when I saw the untouched-looking Beretta 92 Owner's Manual in the factory box. Still, the MD and I showed great restraint in not braining this guy and burying him on the property. (There was a shovel not six feet away from the gear-up table; that whimsical thought did cross my mind for just a second...:D )
 

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DQ's happen. Part of the games and nobody is immune. The best shooters get dq'd. One of if not the current top shooter was dq'd at the S&W indoor championship just a couple of years ago for a safety violation. I've had to dq a few and it's never fun. Especially if they are your friends. Most take it as a learning experience. Some don't. The ones that don't you only hope that they never return.

Mark
 

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I had to DQ the match director at a match a couple of years ago. He was the SO for our squad. When it came time for him to shoot he gave me the timer. As he was running from one cover position to another I felt something hit my foot. I looked down and there was a gun laying on top of my shoe. He had forgotten to remove his carry gun fron an ankle holster.
 

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I very much do *not* think that safety is any less of an issue at an IDPA match as opposed to a USPSA/IPSC match. I have bought lunch at DQ and I have sent people to buy lunch at DQ. It happens. Those who have and those who will.

The biggest problem is the good ol' boy syndrome. "I cant DQ him, he is my friend..." or "I cant yell muzzle or finger at him, he is having a great run and he knows what he is doing. He is just on the 179..."

Its hard for an IPSC shooter to realize that IDPA does not have a 180 rule. I have yet to shoot an IDPA match anywhere where breaking the 180 is allowed, but the rulebook allows it.

The only part of IDPA that sucks is its Safety Officers Program. It is just about worthless when compared to the IPSC Range Officer Program. I hate to say that and I hate to compare IDPA to IPSC, but that how it looks from the top of my soapbox.
 

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Joe D said:
I had to DQ the match director at a match a couple of years ago. He was the SO for our squad. When it came time for him to shoot he gave me the timer. As he was running from one cover position to another I felt something hit my foot. I looked down and there was a gun laying on top of my shoe. He had forgotten to remove his carry gun fron an ankle holster.
Holy crap!!!
 

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:rock:
TLE said:
Around here, most folks show some class after being DQ'd by staying and helping score and paste or paint targets. They know that they messed up and accept the consequences.
You see you had to go that's the way it was.Class had nothing to do with it!
 

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Tom Freeman said:
I very much do *not* think that safety is any less of an issue at an IDPA match as opposed to a USPSA/IPSC match. I have bought lunch at DQ and I have sent people to buy lunch at DQ. It happens. Those who have and those who will.

The biggest problem is the good ol' boy syndrome. "I cant DQ him, he is my friend..." or "I cant yell muzzle or finger at him, he is having a great run and he knows what he is doing. He is just on the 179..."

Its hard for an IPSC shooter to realize that IDPA does not have a 180 rule. I have yet to shoot an IDPA match anywhere where breaking the 180 is allowed, but the rulebook allows it.

The only part of IDPA that sucks is its Safety Officers Program. It is just about worthless when compared to the IPSC Range Officer Program. I hate to say that and I hate to compare IDPA to IPSC, but that how it looks from the top of my soapbox.
Our IDPA club occasionally sets up stages where breaking 180 is likely. We have pits in which this is safe to do. But usually the SO will tell everyone (spectators) to move to a designated area when running these stages. Also the SO will give plenty warning before Issuing a DQ, especially in one of those 180+ stages...

Blatent disregard for safety rules results in immediate DQ
 

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As important as sight alignment and reloads are, safety is far more important and should be very rigid and impersonal in its enforcement. Can you think of anything more impersonal than a stray bullet flying around?

At every IDPA match I have shot at and every local match our pistol club (IPSC) holds, the safety rules are gone over. DQ's are issued, people learn.

No one has been shot.

We have never had anyone get mad and leave due to a DQ. The put thier toys away and enjoy the rest of the day pasting, resetting, scoring, and RO'ing.

Like I once heard and will repeat. "I came for the shooting but the people are why I stay." :)

FWIW

dj
 

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It is true that IDPA does not have the "180 degree safety rule". But IDPA has the "muzzle safe points" where the muzzle may not swing pass. A muzzle swung pass the muzzle safe points will result in immediate DQ of the shooter. I hope this is clear for the benefit of non IDPA shooters.
 

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i am still waiting to hear where this occurred, as i stated above how likely is it that this would occur twice on the same week, and the same state




I just received word from a customer of mine about some guy shooting himself in the leg at an IDPA indoor championship. I might add that at this same club at a different match a guy was pointing a loaded gun back up range and nothing was done about it. After viewing the video of another guy making a mag change, pointing the gun back up range with his finger on the trigger I have to wonder why safety infractions are not handled in a better manner.
Before someone takes this out of context I'm not bashing IDPA or any of the shooting sports.
I have shot in Steel matches, Pin matches, Action Pistol matches, USPSA matches and Single Stack matches all over the USA; the safety infractions I've seen have been few but the ones I have wittnessed the shooter was DQed on the spot.

My question is, why is IDPA so lax on safety infractions?


i will tell you i think this thread is in bad taste due to the second hand nature of the information posted "I just received word from a customer of mine", "i saw a video"

this shooter shooting himself in the leg also occurred at a match i was attended last Sunday, the guy who it happened to is a very nice person, but it was his fault, and he will tell you it was equipment malfunction, his competition single action Glock discharged as soon as he touched it, didn't make it out of the holster, no safety officer in the world could have prevented it , he himself is one of the best safety officers i have met, as an irony part of the story a bunch of us purchased him a "safety officer" award plaque before this occurred, due to his hard work and dedication to the sport

i have attended this range for the past year, driving a bit to get to it, i have shot two classifiers, and a dozen matches their, i also took my safety officer class there, from one of the best safety officers there is, who also is a safety officer at the nationals each year

i have yet to see any unnatural safety issues at this range, other than the newbie that we all have come to know to well
 
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