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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have a SA mil-spec that has come back in for some upgrades. One of these is changing out a Greider 3 hole long trigger to a solid medium. I had done this and went to shoot it yesterday when around the third shot had hammer follow. Hum, ok that was interesting. Out of the 20 rounds fired it happened roughly about 14 rounds. So first test I did was lock slide back and release. First time fail, ok second pass, third pass, fourth pass. :confused:....ok, next cock hammer pull trigger, hold trigger rack slide...hammer follows...every time. So I put back in the Greider long and do same test. All Pass. Ok, back to med trigger...repeat second test same results, do first test and 1st pass, second pass, third fail. ok....so I replace with new sear and do again...same results. Ok, put back in long trigger with new sear and no problems...So I put in another med length greider trigger with new sear and guess what same results as with previous medium trigger......:confused: So I take out another med out of another gun and put it in and then get the same results with the all three med length greider triggers. So after a few choice words at myself for feeling like am looking over an obvious solution to this problem I put back in the original trigger and sear do all teat and all pass.
So I am left feeling dazed and confused at a problem that needs a solution. I am sure the higher ups have run across this before?, I hope and can shed some light on the subject at hand. Am I sure that if this was a snake in front of me I would have already been bitten, more than once. :biglaugh:

P.S.
I am sure I have left out details that may be needed
 

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Hiya, Chris. Do you mind if a non-higher-up chimes in? ;)

Take out the grip safety, and test again without it to make sure it's not binding.

Next, check the sear spring tension to make sure that you have enough.

Next, I'd check the pre-travel of the trigger. First, use the pistolwrench test - with the trigger all the way out, scribe a pencil line on the pad right up against the frame's trigger slot mouth. Then, cock the gun, pull the trigger in just to the point that you get contact with the sear (but not enough to trip it), and scribe another line. Measure the distance between the lines. That's pre-travel, which oughta be somewhere from .025 - .060. Second, (log man test) - while holding the trigger back, rack the slide just enough to set the hammer to half cock, and then let the slide back down. Then release the trigger and make sure it resets. If it doesn't, then you will have to get more pre-travel, possibly by thinning the sear feat.

If you'll work the action with the gun assembled except the GS left out, you can look in the back and learn a lot by watching the parts interact.

Last of all, wait until a real guru does post to make sure what I've said is correct!

Best,
Jon
 

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With offending trigger look in mag well or remove the GS and see if you can determine that the back of bow is contacting the sear leaf when the trigger is held back.

LOG
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
BigJon, anytime....Anyone who can shed light is higher up to me. Like I mentioned I am sure I left out information. I did leave out GS and nothing appears to be binding. Pre-travel in about .048(with the original med trigger I put in), racking slide with GS out hammer still followed with all three med triggers but not long trigger.

Log I will double check I do not recall the bow touching(I do a small relief angle cut on bow).

I was planning on measuring all four bow lengths tonight.
 

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heeeeee's BAAAAAACK! :biglaugh:

P.S. - Log - are you thinkin' that maybe the sear spring is being lifted off?
Yes, considering the information that it does it repeatedly with an offending trigger and not at all with another.

LOG
 

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Measure the length of the trigger bow, both the 3-hole trigger and also the new medium length trigger. If the trigger bow is to short, it might be allowing the corner of the disconnector to protrude into the mag well where the magazine will bump the disconnector.

Ask me how I learned this!
 

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Ah. I think I just learned something else. The key lies here: "... pull trigger, hold trigger rack slide...hammer follows...every time." The hammer is being caught just fine by the sear as the gun is cocked. Instead, the problem happens when the gun is cocked when the trigger is being held back, which indicates that it's a re-set problem, specifically, the trigger is so far back that the disco can't disconnect from the sear feet. Correct?
 

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Ah. I think I just learned something else. The key lies here: "... pull trigger, hold trigger rack slide...hammer follows...every time." The hammer is being caught just fine by the sear as the gun is cocked. Instead, the problem happens when the gun is cocked when the trigger is being held back, which indicates that it's a re-set problem, specifically, the trigger is so far back that the disco can't disconnect from the sear feet. Correct?
I'm not seeing it this way, as IF the disco isn't short, it will disconnect by the slides movement, but the trigger bow could push the sear leaf off the sear, by pushing so far back that the disco ear is what actually contacts the sear leaf.

LOG.
 

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Okay. I think I understand what you're saying, but not entirely sure. What I was suggestin' was that the trigger might be going back so far that it puts the disco in a bind and won't let it drop free of the sear feet.
 

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Well, how about going back to the no GS, and watch it as you cycle and share why it's doing what it is?
 

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Chris,
I was thinking that the trigger is moving too far to the rear, negatively affecting the sear spring, either from direct contact or via the disco.
Do you have the screw adjusted as you describe above? Is the magazine catch in place during your tests?
And as Log suggested, leave the grip safety off and look for differences between the original trigger and the new.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Chris,
I was thinking that the trigger is moving too far to the rear, negatively affecting the sear spring, either from direct contact or via the disco.
Do you have the screw adjusted as you describe above? Is the magazine catch in place during your tests?
And as Log suggested, leave the grip safety off and look for differences between the original trigger and the new.

Yes to both, I will take a look again at both tonight and report back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
so taking a look between the long and the medium nothing seemd different. So starting back with the screw in so hammer would not drop and doing as little of turns as possible, set where hammer drops. No additional turn like before. First check pass....sear engagment test fail.......
 

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This is coming out odd after this for a trigger.Have you pulled the guts for sh&gigs to see if Murphy hit and the hammer and sear didn't go or something like all the drops fubarred something?All the previous advice and your checks throws it to unconventional territory to me.
 

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What is the log man test ?

Hiya, Chris. Do you mind if a non-higher-up chimes in? ;)

Take out the grip safety, and test again without it to make sure it's not binding.

Next, check the sear spring tension to make sure that you have enough.

Next, I'd check the pre-travel of the trigger. First, use the pistolwrench test - with the trigger all the way out, scribe a pencil line on the pad right up against the frame's trigger slot mouth. Then, cock the gun, pull the trigger in just to the point that you get contact with the sear (but not enough to trip it), and scribe another line. Measure the distance between the lines. That's pre-travel, which oughta be somewhere from .025 - .060. Second, (log man test) - while holding the trigger back, rack the slide just enough to set the hammer to half cock, and then let the slide back down. Then release the trigger and make sure it resets. If it doesn't, then you will have to get more pre-travel, possibly by thinning the sear feat.

If you'll work the action with the gun assembled except the GS left out, you can look in the back and learn a lot by watching the parts interact.

Last of all, wait until a real guru does post to make sure what I've said is correct!

Best,
Jon

What is the purpose of the (log man test ) ? I'm at a loss to figure out what it verifies/validates/checks.

As I understand it, the (log man test) is as follows:

With the firearm fully assembled, hammer down,
1) Hold the trigger to the rear
2) Move the slide to the rear only enough for the sear to engage the 1/2 cock notch
3) While continuing to hold the trigger to the rear, let the slide return to battery
4) Release the trigger and the disconnector should reset.

Log Man,

Can you expand on your testing procedure ?

BigJon,

Could you explain your "thinning the feet procedure"?

Thanks, 4D5
 
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