Bluetooth said:
Mine is 71B10XX and it doesn't have this problem...
Greg
Series 70 machined off center
I bought a new series 70 not too long ago and just noticed something weird. The slide appears to be machined off center. If you look at the hole where the spring plug goes, you'll see one side is thicker than the other.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b279/GMorris/Picture120.jpg
It doesn't really bother me, but I'm concerned about reliability. Because it's so thin will it eventually crack prematurely? Should I send this gun back to colt to have the slide replaced?
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b279/GMorris/Picture120.jpg
It doesn't really bother me, but I'm concerned about reliability. Because it's so thin will it eventually crack prematurely? Should I send this gun back to colt to have the slide replaced?
21 - 40 of 110 Posts
Mine is 71B10XX and it doesn't have this problem...
Greg
My serial number range is 71B19XX
I actually started, but then I stopped after realizing I pointed out pretty much the entire pistol yet STILL people keep finding new anomalies.Bluetooth said:Maybe DSK would build a sticky with all the known Colt inspection points.
My two are 71B10XX and 71B17XX and are fine in this area. Apparently this latest problem began happening with the most recent production.
Note: this is not a flame. General notice to anyone looking to buy a new production Colt. Please thoroughly look over the pistol before buying, internally and externally. Obviously Colt quality and control is still not up to par. I don't regret buying this pistol, but I am dissapointed. Don't make the same mistake I did. Make sure to lookover the pistol before buying!
I have been watching this thread and thought I would chime in. First, I would agree that it is a defect, mostly cosmetic. Second, as a Quality Assurance professional of more than 30 years, I would like to address the QC issue. AS many have stated, it should have been, and probably was caught. However, the statement that it was ignored and just passed on bothers me. What you need to remember is that there are "specifications / tolerances" to everything and if Colt determines that a certain amount of off center condition is allowed within their specs there is little an inspector can do but accept it as within spec. Another scenario that is possible is that these slides were found to be discrepant by inspection and the MRB (Material Review Board) dispositioned them as "Use as is". Many times a company will accept a borderline condition and if there are no complaints all is well and if they receive a complaint they just replace the item. It is usually a matter of what is less costly to the company, fixing the condition or paying warranty costs. This is true across most industry, and anyone that believes that every part in their Auto, refridgerator, firearm, etc is manufactured to the middle of the tolerance or even completely within spec at all times is probably a little naive.
As a consumer, we need to let the company know that we do not accept this condition. If you do not feel that your 1911 is right, send it back. If enough go back a corrective action investigation should result and the problem will be corrected hopefully.
Sceva
As a consumer, we need to let the company know that we do not accept this condition. If you do not feel that your 1911 is right, send it back. If enough go back a corrective action investigation should result and the problem will be corrected hopefully.
Sceva
Actually, if what you are saying is true then it bothers me as well. If the crap we see above is within "acceptable tolerances" then we have a problem. You can be damn sure if this was 1942, and the pistol above was a Colt going to the government it would've been rejected by Ordnance Department inspectors immediately. It's high time that we "civilian inspectors" begin rejecting the guns we're seeing come out of the factory.sceva said:However, the statement that it was ignored and just passed on bothers me. What you need to remember is that there are "specifications / tolerances" to everything and if Colt determines that a certain amount of off center condition is allowed within their specs there is little an inspector can do but accept it as within spec. Another scenario that is possible is that these slides were found to be discrepant by inspection and the MRB (Material Review Board) dispositioned them as "Use as is". Many times a company will accept a borderline condition and if there are no complaints all is well and if they receive a complaint they just replace the item.
My point exactly. When people talk about the quality in the old days we must remember that labor was not only cheaper, it was a smaller percentage of the cost of any item. As labor rates go up companies look for ways to keep costs and prices down. One way is "looser" tolerances and / or less hand work. In 1942 it would not occur because the customer would not accept it. What I was trying to get across is that it might not be the line inspector that is not doing his job. Instead it may be the Companies interpretation as to what is acceptable and what isn't and if an inspector rejects parts that are within "spec" he/she won't keep their job long. Remember, the inspector does not set the specs, they only check to determine if they are met.
As consumers it is up to us to let Colt know what we find acceptable and what we don't. We do this with our pocketbook. We return items we consider defective and tell them why we believe that and if they don't get the message we find another source. If sales fall off or if returns mount up Colt will get the message and should make corrections.
As consumers it is up to us to let Colt know what we find acceptable and what we don't. We do this with our pocketbook. We return items we consider defective and tell them why we believe that and if they don't get the message we find another source. If sales fall off or if returns mount up Colt will get the message and should make corrections.
I agree it is most likely only a cosmetic flaw. It sounds like Colt will fix the problem. I agree it should be one of the things you glance at when buying a gun.stfram said:Unless you knew where to look, you'd never notice it, and it probably wouldn't affect functioning in the least.
That said, you call them, they'll own up to the problem and fix it.
I am glad I read this forum. That's another inspection point that I'll be sure to make before putting any cash down on a blued or stainless Series 70.
My opinion is that when you are paying a premium for the Colt name (as rightly pointed out in several other posts), you shouldn't have to have a list of factory defects to look for in a brand new gun. We are not talking about a car here with thousands of parts and computers interacting with everything. We're talking about a gun designed (for the most part) a hundred years ago with what, 60 parts?
Perhaps the dealers ought to be a little more on our side looking for problems in new guns, the same way the car dealer "preps" a car before they sell it. I'm not saying they need to shoot 1000 rounds to see if the frame cracks, but easy to spot blems such as this should (and probably are more than we know) be returned by the dealer prior to the sale.
I started a thread yesterday ( http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=124045 ) asking why Colt appears to be in such dire financial straits. I'm sure stuff like this doesn't exactly instill confidence in the first time buyer.
Exactly. A $400 Springfield Mil-Spec doesn't have these kinds of defects. Nor does an Auto Ordinance, a Norinco, or for that matter a Rock Island!Mike'sgooddeal said:My opinion is that when you are paying a premium for the Colt name (as rightly pointed out in several other posts), you shouldn't have to have a list of factory defects to look for in a brand new gun.
Mine has it too
I just checked my Series 80 1991 and it has the same off-center defect. I bought it just over a year ago (7-04) but never noticed the problem before now because I never looked closely at this area of the slide. If I return mine to Colt for this problem, will Colt honor the warranty?
Thanks,
Bud P. :bawling:
I just checked my Series 80 1991 and it has the same off-center defect. I bought it just over a year ago (7-04) but never noticed the problem before now because I never looked closely at this area of the slide. If I return mine to Colt for this problem, will Colt honor the warranty?
Thanks,
Bud P. :bawling:
I believe Colt's warranty is supposed to be lifetime.
As a QC inspector in the manufacturing industry for the past 27 years, the above is 100% correct and is Standard Operating Procedure for every supplier that I know of. It's the "bean counters" vs. the folks out on the shop floor, and guess who almost always wins.sceva said:What you need to remember is that there are "specifications / tolerances" to everything and if Colt determines that a certain amount of off center condition is allowed within their specs there is little an inspector can do but accept it as within spec. Another scenario that is possible is that these slides were found to be discrepant by inspection and the MRB (Material Review Board) dispositioned them as "Use as is". Many times a company will accept a borderline condition and if there are no complaints all is well and if they receive a complaint they just replace the item. It is usually a matter of what is less costly to the company, fixing the condition or paying warranty costs. This is true across most industry, and anyone that believes that every part in their Auto, refridgerator, firearm, etc is manufactured to the middle of the tolerance or even completely within spec at all times is probably a little naive.
I say this as a die-hard Colt fan. There are no sexier pistols on Earth than a classic Colt 1911 with its polished flats, nice matted rounds, and classic non-enhanced profile. The Series 70 reproductions called out to me, particularly the stainless ones. I bugged Mark1648 to tell the guys making the blued ones to start making ones out of stainless, and when the first ones showed up I was excited to say the least. This was MY idea of a perfect Colt, although I must say the new-rollmark stainless 1991 models are just about as ideal. Heck, you guys have seen just how many of these things I have bought, right? I ended up buying a WW2 and WW1 Replica, a blued 1991, two stainless 1991, three stainless S70's, and four blued S70's over the past few years (sadly I had to trim the fat, and now just two stainless S70's and the WW1 Replica remain). So Colt cannot accuse me of not liking their products or having a grudge against the company. The fact is I LOVE their products. I just get so damn frustrated when they can't even make a single one that doesn't have some irritating machining defect or finishing anomaly. Come on, your polishers are expert enough to make a mirror-flat finish, yet they always slip and buff out a portion of the matted areas? Your machinists can't drill the holes centered and square? The assembly workers can't avoid scratching up the finish when they assemble the guns? And worse yet, the QC guys have to allow this stuff to get past them, assuming if I don't like it I'll just pay more shipping fees and do without my new gun for two months while you try to get it right the second time?
For me, Colt has been like loving a father with an alcohol addiction. I want to see him recover and get better, but sometimes I just want to kick him up the ass and walk away.
For me, Colt has been like loving a father with an alcohol addiction. I want to see him recover and get better, but sometimes I just want to kick him up the ass and walk away.
Interesting that you mention dealers.Mike'sgooddeal said:Perhaps the dealers ought to be a little more on our side looking for problems in new guns, the same way the car dealer "preps" a car before they sell it. I'm not saying they need to shoot 1000 rounds to see if the frame cracks, but easy to spot blems such as this should (and probably are more than we know) be returned by the dealer prior to the sale.
I was checking out a then just-released Smith 1911 .45, and found that when I pulled the trigger with the gun held in a standard grip (I prefer a low-thumb grip), I could maybe get the hammer to fall 70% of the time, and the pull was gritty to boot.
High-thumb grip? Forget it, may as well have thrown it.
Pointed this out to the dealer, suggested that he may want to send the gun back to the factory for repair.
He told me that he'd wait until someone bought it, and if they had problems, then he'd send it back at his expense.
The gun did sell (quickly!), not sure if the buyer had my problem or not.
I understand that dealers are businessmen and every time they have to send a gun back, that either eats $30.00 profit or they have to raise the price a little. For some customers that extra $30.00 will make them walk out the door to some other dealer. I would also imagine that some of the smaller dealers can't afford to have a dozen guns out the door being repaired at the factory...their inventory and overhead costs are just too close to the profit margin.
With that said, there has to be some value to the dealer's reputation. If they told a prospective customer that they had to send back the gun because it wasn't up to "his" standards when he got it and that it has now been double-triple checked. He could also say the gun is now better than the average out the door factory gun, that should mean something to the customer. That is how you win return customers.
I'm not trying to put everything on the dealer's head, but why would an honest person pass along a legitimate flaw (such as failure to get the hammer to fall) to an unsuspecting and perhaps much less knowledgeable customer? What is that dealer willing to hide or not tell you on your next purchase?
With that said, there has to be some value to the dealer's reputation. If they told a prospective customer that they had to send back the gun because it wasn't up to "his" standards when he got it and that it has now been double-triple checked. He could also say the gun is now better than the average out the door factory gun, that should mean something to the customer. That is how you win return customers.
I'm not trying to put everything on the dealer's head, but why would an honest person pass along a legitimate flaw (such as failure to get the hammer to fall) to an unsuspecting and perhaps much less knowledgeable customer? What is that dealer willing to hide or not tell you on your next purchase?
"A $400 Springfield Mil-Spec doesn't have these kinds of defects. Nor does an Auto Ordinance, a Norinco, or for that matter a Rock Island!"
What???
I usually agree with dsk, but this is pretty "out there". I'd say that the usual Colt purchaser is a fairly more discriminatory and meticulous consumer than the run of the mill SA, AO, Norinco, and RIA buyer.
Not to be slamming the fans of the clones or picking on Colt aficionados, but I think Colt buyers really expect more, so will look for defects, real or imagined.
I do know that the slide on my SA Gunsite GSP2000 had its rear sight dovetail cut too low at SA. To correct the elevation problem, I have had to buy an Officers Model Novak rear sight. The front sight is as low as it can be.
What???
I usually agree with dsk, but this is pretty "out there". I'd say that the usual Colt purchaser is a fairly more discriminatory and meticulous consumer than the run of the mill SA, AO, Norinco, and RIA buyer.
Not to be slamming the fans of the clones or picking on Colt aficionados, but I think Colt buyers really expect more, so will look for defects, real or imagined.
I do know that the slide on my SA Gunsite GSP2000 had its rear sight dovetail cut too low at SA. To correct the elevation problem, I have had to buy an Officers Model Novak rear sight. The front sight is as low as it can be.
I guess I need to clarify my statement. Colt's pistols clearly use superior components and materials to the lower-end brands I just mentioned. However, even the cheap Springfield GI has straight edges and centered machine cuts! Maybe I shouldn't have thrown Auto Ordinance in there, since in the past they were notorious for not knowing how to drill holes in the same place twice. But you also didn't have to pay $800+ for one either.Andy said:I usually agree with dsk, but this is pretty "out there".
Although I don't want to, I have to agree with dsk on this one. I like Colt for the same reason why most people like colt, Because they're the original manufactures of the model 1911, but that doesn't mean they make the best one. Not only is the slide machined off center, but the slide flats have numerous scratches done at the factory. I can tell they're factory scratches because it's under the blued finish. The slide also rubs the hell out of the dust cover, and there's big 'ole shiny spot where the metal is exposed. My springfield is just a better made 1911 in all respects. I'm still planning on sending this thing back to colt, and hopefully they can solve these problems and not create new ones.
I feel your agony. 2-3 months ago I would have written these same words you have used above, (just switched out Springfield for SW1911). After wasting a month chewing over sending it back, I finally did. Sixteen working days later, (YMMV) the gun returned and the above paragraph no longer applied. Write a polite and concise letter to Colt detailing the problem(s) and what you want them to do about it. One member even asked Colt to just replace the gun in total.Spec said:Although I don't want to, I have to agree with dsk on this one. I like Colt for the same reason why most people like colt, Because they're the original manufactures of the model 1911, but that doesn't mean they make the best one. Not only is the slide machined off center, but the slide flats have numerous scratches done at the factory. I can tell they're factory scratches because it's under the blued finish. The slide also rubs the hell out of the dust cover, and there's big 'ole shiny spot where the metal is exposed. My springfield is just a better made 1911 in all respects. I'm still planning on sending this thing back to colt, and hopefully they can solve these problems and not create new ones.
slide machined off center.
After looking through the thread that "spec" started about the slide being machined off center I decided to look at the 2 XSE Commannders I have. I have a ss XSE Commander as well as a ss LW XSE Commander. I wish i had not looked both are slightly off center on the same side as Spec slide.I have shot the ss Commander and it shoots to the point of aim and is accurate. The slide is not rubbing the frame anywhere, atleast not yet. Both slides are not off nearly as much as Spec slide, but they are off a little. Gun also has never jammed. Should i have any reason to worry? I agree that Spec gun is way off and it should have never left the factory. I swore off Colts several years ago, but i just had to have a couple of the horses in the safe. I also checked all my Kimbers as well as my Colt Ace and none of them were off at all. The slide to frame fit is good on both Commanders and I am afraid to send them back to Colt. Again if both guns run ok and are accurate should I be concerned????? Thanks.......Great web sight. Good luck "spec" with you pistol.
After looking through the thread that "spec" started about the slide being machined off center I decided to look at the 2 XSE Commannders I have. I have a ss XSE Commander as well as a ss LW XSE Commander. I wish i had not looked both are slightly off center on the same side as Spec slide.I have shot the ss Commander and it shoots to the point of aim and is accurate. The slide is not rubbing the frame anywhere, atleast not yet. Both slides are not off nearly as much as Spec slide, but they are off a little. Gun also has never jammed. Should i have any reason to worry? I agree that Spec gun is way off and it should have never left the factory. I swore off Colts several years ago, but i just had to have a couple of the horses in the safe. I also checked all my Kimbers as well as my Colt Ace and none of them were off at all. The slide to frame fit is good on both Commanders and I am afraid to send them back to Colt. Again if both guns run ok and are accurate should I be concerned????? Thanks.......Great web sight. Good luck "spec" with you pistol.
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