Series 70 machined off center
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DSK,
You're certainly knowledgable IMO. Do you think that I should be looking at a Springfield Armory WWII GI 1911, as oppose to a Colt 1991 or Series 70 reproduction at this time? I'm not familiar with SA, and any problems that their pistols may have. The one I handled looked darned near excellent from the outside. I do think my Stainless 1991 (5" ORM) is near perfect though. Thanks.
You're certainly knowledgable IMO. Do you think that I should be looking at a Springfield Armory WWII GI 1911, as oppose to a Colt 1991 or Series 70 reproduction at this time? I'm not familiar with SA, and any problems that their pistols may have. The one I handled looked darned near excellent from the outside. I do think my Stainless 1991 (5" ORM) is near perfect though. Thanks.
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If I could be assured of getting one without flaws I'd take the Colt any day of the week. However most people won't have the chance to choose among several Colts at once, because when they can be found the dealer usually only has one. As it was, when I bought my last Series 70 I was able to pick from two they had, and after I got it home I still found a couple of minor flaws. :hrm:
I had a Springfield GI model until recently. Mine was a flawless performer, and most of the ones I've looked at in gunshops appeared equally consistent. I say most, because I did see a couple with issues that would've prevented me from buying. However I have yet to find a dealer that doesn't keep at least two or three of these on hand, so your odds of being able to choose from the litter are going to be much better with a Springfield.
I had a Springfield GI model until recently. Mine was a flawless performer, and most of the ones I've looked at in gunshops appeared equally consistent. I say most, because I did see a couple with issues that would've prevented me from buying. However I have yet to find a dealer that doesn't keep at least two or three of these on hand, so your odds of being able to choose from the litter are going to be much better with a Springfield.
dsk said:
Nope, I wouldn't have noticed it had it not been for this thread. At least with one that is severely assymmetrical, like the original poster's, Colt will replace it. With this, it is obviously not quite perfect, but probably not bad enough for Colt to replace. The thing of it is, I looked at my original WWI 1911 and my Kimber Gold Match, and both are perfectly symmetrical in that area, so it's somewhat frustrating to get a new Colt that is not. I'd rather have ended up with one like the original poster's.
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To give you an idea about the flaws I found on my SS Series 70, look at the front slide scallops on the left and right pics of my pistol. The right side comes to a sharper point at the rear. I also noticed the slide/frame fit isn't perfectly flush at the rear, but slightly off thanks to slightly overcut barrel feet.
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If you even noticed them at all, they're obviously so slight you might be looking at me like this :hrm:. At least the recoil plug cut is centered, there is no dust cover rubbing, the bushing fits the slide well, the plunger tube is on tight, the rollmarks are straight, and the polishing is even. With that in mind I'm not too freaked that there were a couple areas that were slightly imperfect.
If you even noticed them at all, they're obviously so slight you might be looking at me like this :hrm:. At least the recoil plug cut is centered, there is no dust cover rubbing, the bushing fits the slide well, the plunger tube is on tight, the rollmarks are straight, and the polishing is even. With that in mind I'm not too freaked that there were a couple areas that were slightly imperfect.
I definitely see what you are talking about with your pistol.
I was never seriously thinking of returning it for a replacement slide, as it shoots very accurately. I could end up with a less accurate pistol, albeit, more perfectly machined. It's just kind of amazing how a pistol made in 1918 during wartime production can have better machining than a modern Colt 1911.
My WWI 1911:
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I was never seriously thinking of returning it for a replacement slide, as it shoots very accurately. I could end up with a less accurate pistol, albeit, more perfectly machined. It's just kind of amazing how a pistol made in 1918 during wartime production can have better machining than a modern Colt 1911.
My WWI 1911:
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That is a fine looking pistol, warts and all.
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slide machined off center
My slides are similar to "BMR" slide. On both of my slides it appears colt used a chamfer tool or a barrell crowning device to cut a bevel in and effort to even up the area are cover up the flaw. I am truly affraid if I sent my Commanders back they would come back worse. The shop I purchased the steel frame ss Xse from has a new production Gold Cup and you can see the recoil spring when looking on either side of the gun. I know this is cosmetic but it should have never left the factory. I had rather have the slide slightly off center than to have a 10 or 15 thouandth gap in the dust cover area. Owner said he could have sold this gun several times had it not been for the gap in the duct cover area. I went to a store that is known for a large selection of 1911's and cheched out several other brands. Low and behold I found a springfield with a off center slide. Did not see a Kimber or para w/off center slide but bet there out there. The difference is SF could make a good repair and with colt is ifffy. I think i will accept mine as is. Had they been a less expensive brand i would have not though much about it. It"s the little thing that sometime get the most attention.
My slides are similar to "BMR" slide. On both of my slides it appears colt used a chamfer tool or a barrell crowning device to cut a bevel in and effort to even up the area are cover up the flaw. I am truly affraid if I sent my Commanders back they would come back worse. The shop I purchased the steel frame ss Xse from has a new production Gold Cup and you can see the recoil spring when looking on either side of the gun. I know this is cosmetic but it should have never left the factory. I had rather have the slide slightly off center than to have a 10 or 15 thouandth gap in the dust cover area. Owner said he could have sold this gun several times had it not been for the gap in the duct cover area. I went to a store that is known for a large selection of 1911's and cheched out several other brands. Low and behold I found a springfield with a off center slide. Did not see a Kimber or para w/off center slide but bet there out there. The difference is SF could make a good repair and with colt is ifffy. I think i will accept mine as is. Had they been a less expensive brand i would have not though much about it. It"s the little thing that sometime get the most attention.
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off center slide
I agree with "DSK" the inspectors seen it but simply ignorard it. I bet there is a bunch of off center slides out there. I am mad at myself for not checking or catching it before the thread started.
I agree with "DSK" the inspectors seen it but simply ignorard it. I bet there is a bunch of off center slides out there. I am mad at myself for not checking or catching it before the thread started.
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BMR said:
I would guess that during wartime production, the workers were very much aware that any mistakes could cost one or a dozen lives. It seems we've all lost that attention to detail, not just Colt and not just firearms production.
It does seem that Colt would be best served by getting their act togather the first time, so they don't need to rely so heavily on CS the second time around.
With that said, let's try to remind ourselves why we like Colts, not dwell too hard on the mistakes of the past, present and (future?).
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I've seen a LOT of USGI Colt, Remington Rand, Ithaca, etc. 45's with machining and finishing anomalies. However, none were of the kind that would affect functioning or safety. To be honest, since there was a war going on I can understand for example why a 1942 Colt I once owned had a noticeable finishing anomaly on the slide. But this is 2005, and while Colt is cranking out M4 rifles as fast as it can the handgun line should be moving a lot more leisurely. Therefore we shouldn't be seeing these kinds of issues with new pistols in my opinion.BMR said:
k217sc said:
Spec said:
FWIW my S/N is 71B21XX and is center drilled..I wont get into other anomolies..such as the breechface that looks like it was polished with a brick.Bluetooth said:
I wonder if Colt switched machinist somewhere between my 71B21XX and Bluetooths 71B23XX.
But even with the flaws..I still Love it..maybe thats what Colt was counting on?
The old master machinists who worked for Colt since the 1920s and '30s retired in the '60s. In addition, the management, any one of whom could probably have assembled a Police Positive blindfolded in the 1930s, '40s, and '50s, became separated from the manufacturing process. MBAs don't make guns. They make money. The gun making business became an asset to be traded and sold.
Given the dirth of skilled machinists, a loss of quality was probably inevitable. CNC is probably saving Colt's b__t. What they need now is top mangement that is as intimate with the business of making firearms as it is with financing and advertizing.
Whatever else you want to say about him, Bill Ruger was an engineer who design a pistol that is still being made. Studies show that the most sucessful companies have owners and management who are personally involved with the business of the business.
Given the dirth of skilled machinists, a loss of quality was probably inevitable. CNC is probably saving Colt's b__t. What they need now is top mangement that is as intimate with the business of making firearms as it is with financing and advertizing.
Whatever else you want to say about him, Bill Ruger was an engineer who design a pistol that is still being made. Studies show that the most sucessful companies have owners and management who are personally involved with the business of the business.
Exactly right! I read an analysis recently of why Toyota is so successful and GM is dying. Toyota is a car company that builds cars, GM is a bank that sells cars. It is how they are run, one is run by engineers and manufacturing people, and the other by bean counters. Building a quality product requires passion for the product, and accountants are only passionate about the bottom line.
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I have that exact same issue on my NRM1991 that I purchased last December. Mine is the opposite of yours though, it has the radius on the right side of the slide and the sharp corner on the left side.dsk said:To give you an idea about the flaws I found on my SS Series 70, look at the front slide scallops on the left and right pics of my pistol. The right side comes to a sharper point at the rear. I also noticed the slide/frame fit isn't perfectly flush at the rear, but slightly off thanks to slightly overcut barrel feet.
![]()
![]()
If you even noticed them at all, they're obviously so slight you might be looking at me like this :hrm:. At least the recoil plug cut is centered, there is no dust cover rubbing, the bushing fits the slide well, the plunger tube is on tight, the rollmarks are straight, and the polishing is even. With that in mind I'm not too freaked that there were a couple areas that were slightly imperfect.
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