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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
After reading some recent debates in certain threads, which had to be locked out by one of the adninistrators I have developed a real concern. At 56 years old I am a fairly experienced firearm owner, carrier and shooter. Among the many weapons I have owned and fired through the past years were 3 1911 models. One a SA milspec, the other 2 were 4" Kimbers. I never had serious enough problems with any of these pistols to warrant needing gunsmith abilities for myself. I would class myself as an experienced and seasoned shooter, but not a seasoned tinkerer. But, following these next statements is the question for my concern. First of all, I am not a "know it all". Secondly, I have never been too prideful to take advice or correction. With that said, after reading some statements by people I have come to admire greatly for their knowledge of 1911's, such as Greyson, Venuto, av8or17 and others I would ask have I bit off more than I will be able to chew as they say by purchasing the EC model? I have read some on the forum say the 1911 model is too much for novice shooters. Do they mean novice to firearms in general or the 1911 specifically? Bottom line, I am hoping being a person that is willing to listen to seasoned 1911 guys like Greyson and others mentioned above, taking advice on bending extractors, choosing the right mags, ammo, etc. along with getting the right manuals for care of the 1911 that I have made the right choice to stay with the EB 1911 pistols. Opinions will be appreciated. :)

Sincerely,

PastorDW
 

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JB made the original 1911s for use by fighting men(at the time only men, to be pc) in the trenches, if you will. Simple design, easy to use and maintain, et cetera(maybe even built with the novice in mind). With all the info available from reliable sources, of which there is enough to make you head spin, this gun should only scare the person looking at the business end of it. Most of this blather is just that, blather.

IMHO

Mauser
 

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In the end, 1911's are just tools, no difference than any other firearms. They may need a tad bit more research and learning to "get" everything that makes them tick.

But like anything else in life, you must practice to be good with anything; golf, poker, bowling, lawn care; whatever. You can't just throw it in a safe, never practice or shoot the weapon, and expect to be competent with it.

Spend time with your 1911, and it will be just as easy to shoot, maintain, breakdown, and enjoy as any other weapon you could choose.
 

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After reading some recent debates in certain threads, which had to be locked out by one of the adninistrators I have developed a real concern. At 56 years old I am a fairly experienced firearm owner, carrier and shooter. Among the many weapons I have owned and fired through the past years were 3 1911 models. One a SA milspec, the other 2 were 4" Kimbers. I never had serious enough problems with any of these pistols to warrant needing gunsmith abilities for myself. I would class myself as an experienced and seasoned shooter, but not a seasoned tinkerer. But, following these next statements is the question for my concern. First of all, I am not a "know it all". Secondly, I have never been too prideful to take advice or correction. With that said, after reading some statements by people I have come to admire greatly for their knowledge of 1911's, such as Greyson, Venuto, av8or17 and others I would ask have I bit off more than I will be able to chew as they say by purchasing the EC model? I have read some on the forum say the 1911 model is too much for novice shooters. Do they mean novice to firearms in general or the 1911 specifically? Bottom line, I am hoping being a person that is willing to listen to seasoned 1911 guys like Greyson and others mentioned above, taking advice on bending extractors, choosing the right mags, ammo, etc. along with getting the right manuals for care of the 1911 that I have made the right choice to stay with the EB 1911 pistols. Opinions will be appreciated. :)

Sincerely,

PastorDW
Hi Pastor..

Thanks for listing my name amoung the others.. I appreciate it.

Pastor.. To me. part of the fun of owning a 1911 is tweaking it.. I love to get into the inner workings. Its just something I am drawn to.. If you are the type of person that like stuff like that then I can't think of a better platform then the 1911..

Of course not everyone is like me.. Not everyone has an interest in machnical things.. Others are "afraid" to take apart a gun past the field strip level. Sometimes thinking that they will somehow screw up the gun so bad that they will have to have someone else fix it..

The fact of the matter is the 1911 platform is very simple in it's design.. I think the fact that it is so simple is why it's still around 100 years later..

These forums have everything needed to assist anyone in adjusting or installing anything 1911 related. For those that don't want to "try" I understand but for those that do I think they are in for a much more rewarding experience owning a 1911.. There is a wonderful feeling you get when you are the one that actually solved a feeding or ejection problem.. It's a feeling I love more and more.. and a satisfaction I get every time I shoot a gun I "worked on"

You don't need to be a "gunsmith" to do the simple things on a 1911.. Not at all. If you want to go deeper and change barrels or beavertails then yes, you might want to buy some special tools and books on the subject.. But all in all, anyone that has the time and interest can do most of the work on a 1911 themselves..
 

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No worries

Bottom line, I am hoping being a person that is willing to listen to seasoned 1911 guys like Greyson and others mentioned above, taking advice on bending extractors, choosing the right mags, ammo, etc. along with getting the right manuals for care of the 1911 that I have made the right choice to stay with the EB 1911 pistols.

Sincerely,

PastorDW
Hello again Pastor,

100% absolutely no worries, you've made the right choice.

You already have your answer as stated above in your original post. It's OK to need a little reassurance. EB makes excellent pistols (function, appearance, parts, craftsmanship, quality, service) and I sincerely appreciate their manufacturing philosophy:

http://www.edbrown.com/cgi-bin/start.cgi/about.htm

There are other excellent pistol manufacturers. But, EB is for me for the reasons stated above.

As you know, all pistols are working machines with moving parts. Sometimes a 1911 needs to be tweeked (springs, extractor, mags, etc.) and when that's the case you can simply tweek it with the assistance of all the reference sources you mentioned. Other problems mentioned in some recent EB threads are easy fixes and occasionally,even within this fourm, mountains are made out of mole hills. Don't sweat it.

I've enjoyed learning about 1911's and I still have much, much more to learn. And to me, learning 1911 pistol history, function, maintanence, carry, shooting, cleaning, tweeking, etc. is a portion of the fun and excitement of owning a 1911 pistol. I have several other pistols including a Sig P226 that I've owned for years. It is an extremely reliable pistol and I love it. However, it doesn't give me goosebumps like the EB and its not nearly as ergonomic or accurate as the EB. The EB just feels like a natural extension of me when it's in my hands.

In the event that you would encounter a more serious problem beyond your skill level, EB or a qualified smith could take care of of it.

I strongly suspect you and your new EB pistol will be just fine and there are thousands of extremely satisfied EB owners who would concur. They're just not all here to reply.


So.....don't worry, be happy :biglaugh:
 

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Pastor - I think you bring up some very relevent questions that tend others may have as well. I don't consider myself as having anywhere near the expertise of the folks you've listed, but I would like to share a few thoughts regarding the 1911.

As the number of manufacturers of the 1911 has exploded in recent years there are a lot of 1911's out there with problems of one sort or another. In my personal experience I have had problems of one sort or another with all the major brands of 1911. In my opinion there is absolutely nothing wrong with the design of the 1911. Like any other firearms design if a part is out of specification in one way or another a functionality problem may exist. The most common problem I have personally encountered is premature slide lock due to an improperly manufactured slide stop.

I believe Greyson has advanced the idea that only experienced folks should have 1911's. My personal view is that only open-minded people should own 1911's. If someone doesn't grasp the fact that any gun is simply a mechanical device that can fail they are going to be in for a big disappointment at some point in there shooting life.

I shoot quite a bit and go the range probably 45 weeks out of the year. I've seen failures of just about every brand of gun you can name. There are those who say Glocks don't jam. Thats malarky. I was in a class with a guy shooting a Glock 17 that had all kinds of problems. I'm not bashing Glocks, just pointing out that any mechanical device can fail. And for the record I've owned a few Glocks and never had any trouble with any of them.

Having said all that, I think if someone has artifically high expectations there is a chance they will be disappointed. On the other hand if someone has reasonable expectations they will remain rational when a failure occurs and deal with it.

I love the 1911 and wouldn't consider carrying anything else. I don't believe its a one size fits all world and others may prefer a different platform. Thats all good and well as far as I'm concerned.
 

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Pastor you are fine, at least you are able and willing to tinker and learn from the more knowledgeable people here. I think that if you are willing to buy a 1911 for $2.5K you must be a hardcore 1911 fan and you should be able to tinker with them... At least you owned a few 1911's before you got this one, instead of jumping in with both feet blind.

Pastor you are lucky to get a fine peice like your EC and enjoy it don't worry about it make sure to give that thing a gracious break-in period and shoot lots of cheap ball in that time. If you do decide to shoot SD ammo be ready to shoot a couple hundreds worth of different SD brands to see what the gun likes... Not all guns treat the same load equally. I personally like bonded HP ammo cause it is still shaped like ball and feeds like ball but under that plastic nose is high perfornce HP.
 

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Pastor...

I am probably one of the least mechanically minded folks you'll ever run across. But...my first 1911 was an Ed Brown Special Forces! Based primarily on information on this forum, I got the Brown. I wanted a first-class gun that I didn't have to tinker with. It had every thing I needed and wanted right out of the box (bag, in this case). And I have not been disappointed for one minute. It's been everything I expected right from the beginning. In a little over 3 thousand rounds, I haven't had the slightest glitch -- no FTF, FTE, FT anything. I'm a firm believer that you can't go wrong with a Brown! If you like to tinker, try something else, that's OK -- if you like to shoot, go with the Brown!

Regards....
 

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Ive only got about 20 years with the 1911. I disagree, 99.9% of the time a 1911 will run with nothing more needed then loading it and pulling the trigger. You may need to try different mags or hollow points. A slightly worse case you might need to try different mag and recoil spring weights. Some you might need some extractor work.


When I used to sell guns, the worst 1911s were the short ones. Regardless of the manufacturer we shipped a lot back for warranty work.

Just this year I sold off all my production line 1911s and bought a Brown and a Baer. Both now have more than 5k rounds of hollowpoints, UMC, WWB and 200gr LSWC reloads. Neither have had anything done but spring replacements and cleaning every 500-1000rds(once or twice more than a 1000rds) neither have had a failure to feed or eject. On my Baer I somehow bent the firing pin, but I dont know but I probably had something to do with it. Thats it, just load and shoot.

Id bet my story is more the norm than the QC issues you read about that get drug out to three or four pages. Even though most of it is honest people honestly helping and the owner a little upset a good bit of it is someone insecure about what they own. And they use the chance to tear down another brand for some odd ass reason.
 

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Hello Padre:)
I think you have come to the right place!
A whole lot of experience is on this particular forum.A lot of people here really like to run their pistols HARD(Grey,are you listening?:biglaugh:)
We all can learn things here from the guys who put a couple of thousand rds down range per year(or in some cases,month to month!)
I know I have learned a lot more about the 1911 platform here than I did at small arms repair school back in '77 at FT LEE VA in the USA.
If I can ever help you,or anyone else on this forum,please drop a pm.
Regards,
DAT85
 

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Another thing you have to consider to is about 98% or more people are more than happy with the semi-custom guns and don't report it... But you hear about problems and concerns more because people come to these forum sites to try and find solutions. The internet/firearm population really only reflects a small amount of consumers.

It's just like the news now, people think there are more crazy and violent people out there cause of what they see on the news. (Yes there are some crazies out there) but in reality the news reporting more of these negative stories then ever before it's what sells. It's the information age and nobody cares about happy and good news they just care and report the negative.
 

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Worry not about your Brown. You HAVE made a wise choice.

One thing I recomend highly to everyone looking for what's up inside a 1911 is the Wilson Maintenance Manual.
It will walk you thru every part of disassembly and reassembly. I have found it very helpful being able to leave the page open for repeated looking at.

Enjoy,
Bob
 

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Pastor,

On any forum (fishing, hunting, & gun) you will find someone bashing something. Just look in the Kimber forum and see how many issues there are.
I wouldn't worry about what others say.

Also, the members that you listed in your post are really the only ones I listen to myself.
 

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Pastor -

I believe Greyson has advanced the idea that only experienced folks should have 1911's. My personal view is that only open-minded people should own 1911's. If someone doesn't grasp the fact that any gun is simply a mechanical device that can fail they are going to be in for a big disappointment at some point in there shooting life..
No worries. If you should want/need to adjust your extractor tension, it is about as difficult as putting air in the tires of your Bentley. While some may "perish the thought" of actually getting down on one knee for a few seconds, for the rest of us in the real world it ain't no big deal.

Regards,
Greyson
 

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Hi, Pastor.
Don't sweat it. I've only known the 1911 for a few years and I'm not scared. This forum is awesome. There are years of experience threaded in these pages that a "novice" with a pair can figure it out. I can't think of a better way to gain experience than by trouble shooting. The only thing I expect out the EB that is only 1 month away is a physically perfect weapon. I know the innards are top notch, I know the guys at Brown are doing everything humanly possible to make sure I get a top notch weapon. I do know that as humans we aren't perfect though. If there is a glitch because it won't feed HPs, I've learned through this forum how to tweak it. I sure as hell won't waste $500 in ammo doing it though. I must say I didn't precisely know what trolling was until that thread came about.
Have a great day, Pastor.
Jon
 

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Pastor,

After reading that "closed post" I think I would feel a bit intimidated by my EB if I didn't all ready have it. :biglaugh: But really it was 5 pages of people saying "I'm soooo unhappy with EB" while Venuto is saying " take 5 seconds to follow my advice and the link I provided and just fix it yourself, because it's so simple a monkey could do it." I was frustrated for him. :biglaugh: Then Greyson says I'll do one better and send you an extractor that will work.
Should have been problem solved right there.

But the reasons this won't be a problem for you

1. You sir have illistrated that you are very humble in your approach to learning. Your not afraid listen to the advice of others.

2. You have all ready figured out who the "wise ones" are so you know where to go to get any advice you may need.

3. You have experience with the 1911 platform.

4. And as Bever Reciever said 98% of semi custom owners are happy with and have no problems with their sidearms.

Your gonna Love your EC.

~Q~
 

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What I like about 1911's are the sweet triggers, balance, grip angle and the fact that you can take the gun apart easily and work on the gun.

Their like the engine compartments/basic technology of a early 70's car. Easy to work on and service. No special pins, springs, tools, widgets, armory school, etc. needed.:rock:
 

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The Holy Gospel of John (Moses Browning)
The Holy Gospel of John (Moses Browning)
As translated from the original ancient manuscripts by Fr. Frog.
(c) copyright 2002 by John C. Schaefer

1 In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was THE pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it workith. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.

2 And shouldst thou muck with it, and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm.

3 And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.

4 Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.

5 And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle. (a)

6 And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunctions to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.

7 Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men, the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.

8 And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did appear to function.

9 And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.

10 But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and didst proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol and with the trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continue to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.

11 And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-Boom to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.

12 Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.

13 And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil sprits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation (b) by the followers of John.

(a) Several old manuscripts add the following text. "And they [also rendered as "these men"] didst chamber it for cartridges who's calibers startith with numbers less than the Holy Number 4. And lo the Lord did cause great grief amongst these men when their enemies who were struck in battle with these lesser numbers didst not fall but did continue to cause great harm."

(b) or Hell

(C) Copyright 2002 by John C. Schaefer
 

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Without trying to name drop, I think Larry Vickers nailed it in a 1911 Operator's Course I took with him. If you are going to run a 1911 hard, you have to stay on top of the gun. You need to know how to tweak extractors and change springs, and perform routine maintenance checks. It very much is an aficionado's pistol now, just because it doesn't lend itself to widespread issuance in LEO/military circles in light of the other choices available.

This comes from a man that could make a living building $3,000 pistols all day long. He may have seen more 45 ACP rounds sent downrange through 1911s than anybody else on this planet, and worked on those guns.

On the other hand, when you are running some of his drills he will tell you about the positive attributes that only a 1911 can provide (speed, accuracy, etc.). If you decide you want to run a 1911, then pay attention to what is required in the long run. I believe another trainer has stated that if you "treat your pistol like a lawnmower, then get a glock". Having said that, it is not really hard to stay on top of the 1911 if you have a good base gun and parts to begin with IMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Feeling much better!

I appreciate the encouragement from all of you that have responded to my concern. After reading the thread I referred to that was locked down I was feeling like this, :scratch:. Now I feel more like this, :D. As I have said before the people and the advice on this forum is priceless! I will check out Wilson's 1911 manual and if anyone else has other suggestions for good reading on working on the 1911 model please let me know. Hopefully after some more schooling by some of you guys I'll get to be a fair 1911 man. Yeah, I know Greyson, and a mag man too! :biglaugh:

Sincerely and God bless,

PastorDW
 
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