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RICHMOND, Ky. (AP) -- A county sheriff in western Kentucky has been indicted for conducting firearms training courses that weren't up to state standards.


A grand jury indicted Edmonson County Sheriff Billy Joe Honeycutt on charges of providing incomplete training and misrepresenting the completion of the training. Both charges are class D felonies that carry a sentence of up to five years in prison.

State police Lt. Phil Crumpton says Honeycutt turned in paperwork that falsely said people had completed the course when they hadn't.

Honeycutt could not be reached for comment.

The training guidelines are set by the Dept. of Criminal Justice training in Richmond, which is where Honeycutt was indicted.

(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All rights.
I'm not sure if this is the first time this has happened in KY or not. I do know that in the CCW class I took, the instructor did discuss why we had to do everything, so this would not happen
 
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Anyone that took a course from this guy should be worried. If the class they took doesn't meet the state requirements, the CCW will be void.
 

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I have to wonder what the actual ommision was. Was this mistake just an oversight/innocent ommision.. or was he running some kind of scam?
 

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It will be interesting to wait until facts become public.

In Kentucky, a sheriff's department can charge a fee for conducting classes for Carrying Concealed Deadly Weapons Permits, and send a portion of the fee to the State. The rest of the fee becomes department revenue. It may be temping to conduct as many classes as possible in order to get as much revenue as possible. It will be interesting to see if that is the root of the evil.

Billy Joe is no stranger to financial controversy. He and his department were found by an auditor in 2003 to "lack adequate segregation of duties", which means the same guy who collects money is also the one who enters it into department ledgers and deposits it in the bank. No evidence was mentioned that money was misappropriated, but it was noted that the department was financially weak in both management and revenue. It is also fair to note that this is a very small department with few staff. Lack of segregation of duties and weak revenue is typical of small public organizations everywhere, and that isn't going to change.
 

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We had a few similar issues up here some years ago but the state simply yanked their license to teach. Quite a step to indict someone for it. Fraud is fraud I guess.
 

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This place isn't so far my neck of the woods. About 90 minutes.

Recently in my neck of the woods, there were some CCW instructors who were shut down for cutting corners. How much was cut wasn't made public. But what was made public was people who had been certified by these instructors were going to have their status reviewed.

Regards,
Greyson
 

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CCDW class

It was also mentioned in my class that there has been review of the process to ensure that the entire class has been taught.
We spent about 20 minutes total discussing the ramifications of falsifying documents and what would happen to the instructor.
Any government program is suseptable to abuse. If there is a way for someone to make a personal gain, it will be done.

The real downside of this is that people may have CCDW permits that do not understand the law or consequences of their actions.
I would imagine that if a shooting were to be billed, there would be a lawsuit filed against the instructor.
 

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In my case, some years ago.. there was a certain time alloted for mandatory range time. It was geared for students who had no experience/profeciency [ scary thought, imho ].. but everyone had subtantial experience.. so after we were done with that segment.. we basically just watched the clock and shoot the breeze, before moving onto the next segment.

If the state mandates X hours.. it better damn well be X hours! :biglaugh:
 

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As soon as Arizona approved its CCW, I enrolled my Mom and Sister. The second day was allocated for the range. They both qualified right off the bat (pretty difficult to fail), and were told to spend the remaining 7 1/2 hours cleaning and familiarizing themselves at home!
 

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There should be more training like drawing from concealment, prepping the trigger, controlled pairs, etc. ...
 

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There should be more training like drawing from concealment, prepping the trigger, controlled pairs, etc. ...
yes there should.

its bad enough that you have to go to a class to be able to use your " right" to carry a firearm, but if your going to have to go to the class then you should learn, and spend the time getting used to the firearm and being able to carry it safely.

i understand that its the responsiblity of the owner to learn the weapon, but at least give them their money worth by making sure they are comfortable with it, and handling it. having a firearms instructor there during the class may be the only time they will be around someone knowledgable enough to ask questions...

i wonder how many people walk out feeling "trained" when they are just familarized. and they dont know any better, because no one has told them there is more to carrying a gun, than just carry the gun.


russel
SDMF
 

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I assist some friends who run a very successful gun store in SE Michigan. They offer the CPL Class as well as a Drawing from Concealment Class, Close Quarter Shooting, Surgical Speed Shooting and Weapons Retention Classes. The classes are pretty darned good; I think I can say so because I've taken classes from renowned trainers prior to my affiliation with these guys. The store is owned by three guys: one active K9 cop, one retired traffic cop, one retired SWAT marksman. So they have a unique perspective on training. Two of these guys are competitive shooters to boot. But I digress. Too few persons choose to take anything beyond the Concealed Pistol License class. One would think that a CPL holder would take all of them. It's not like the classes are expensive: $100 to $150 for a 5 hour class; 200 to 500 rounds fired. But, alas, we are always our own worse enemy...
 

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I know you guys are being very careful in your posts. You recognize that there is a big difference between choosing to take extensive training and being required to take extensive training. There is nothing in the Second Amendment requiring classes in marksmanship, drawing a weapon from a concealment garment, surgical speed shooting, or anything else. The Constitution doesn't even talk about concealed carry. It simply asserts the right to Keep and Bear Arms. In 230 years we've gotten pretty far from that simple assertion.

We don't advocate extensive training as a requirement to exercise a constitutional right. Instead, we advocate it as the responsible way to exercise the right.
 

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Just goes to show the difference between "Shall Issue" and "May Issue" states. When one individual has all the power, corruption shall soon follow.
 

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I took a course in Maine a few years ago to get a CC permit and there were several inexperienced people in my class. We spent about 3 hours in class and then after lunch we each shot 6 rounds with the instructor's revolver. It didn't matter that several couldn't hit the target from ten feet. Everyone passed anyway. It scared me to think that this was all that is required here. I've taken several advanced handgun classes since then from instructors who were police training instructors and SWAT members and the courses were very well taught. It happens all over the country I bet. -Tim
 

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I took a course in Maine a few years ago to get a CC permit and there were several inexperienced people in my class. We spent about 3 hours in class and then after lunch we each shot 6 rounds with the instructor's revolver. It didn't matter that several couldn't hit the target from ten feet. Everyone passed anyway. It scared me to think that this was all that is required here. I've taken several advanced handgun classes since then from instructors who were police training instructors and SWAT members and the courses were very well taught. It happens all over the country I bet. -Tim
That would scare me too.
In Texas we fire fifty shots and there is a minimum score.
 

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I took a course in Maine a few years ago to get a CC permit and there were several inexperienced people in my class. We spent about 3 hours in class and then after lunch we each shot 6 rounds with the instructor's revolver. It didn't matter that several couldn't hit the target from ten feet. Everyone passed anyway. It scared me to think that this was all that is required here. I've taken several advanced handgun classes since then from instructors who were police training instructors and SWAT members and the courses were very well taught. It happens all over the country I bet. -Tim
That would scare me too.
In Texas we fire fifty shots and there is a minimum score.
What scares me(more saddens me, actually)is that one would not require of themselves to be more proficient than that, not that the government wouldn't require them to be so.
It's precisely none of the government's business how proficient I am.
 

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I should state that I'm not a fan of anyone having to get a permit to carry. What actually bothers me is knowing that the government set up this program and students "graduate" thinking that they are qualified to shoot. -Tim
 

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I recently went through the required CCW course for the state of Virginia

This was a state approved and required course. I have been shooting for thirty years and consider myself fairly proficient with handguns in general. There were a number of people in the class who had never even held a firearm. The course lasted approximately two hours, and was classroom only.
I was somewhat disappointed. I really think that all persons attending would have benefitted from some range time.

Two cents: :confused:
 
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