Here's the info from one of my CP Buffs packages:Rick from Kali said:
www.classicpistol.com
215-953-7264
They're in Southampton, PA.
Shok Buffs - do they really help?
They're sold at almost every gun store. A gun smith tells me they cause more problems than they are worth. Is the shok buff's primary function to prevent slide fractures? What are the benefits in using them? Are they helpful in all 1911 style weapons?
21 - 39 of 39 Posts
www.classicpistol.com
215-953-7264
They're in Southampton, PA.
Fortunately, I've never had a lick of problems with Shok-Buffs. I watch their condition pretty closely, and pitch them when they start going bad. I also use it as an indicator of how good my spring weight is for the load I'm using. I honestly don't know if it adds life to the guns or not, but if the slide has enough extra energy at the end of its trip backwards to chew up a shokbuff, then that's energy that I don't want hitting my frame. I'd like to hear from an 80 year old gunsmith who's seen a lot of cracked frames, and hear his opinion on buffs. Meanwhile, I know I couldn't sleep knowing my guns were punching themselves-----it's kind of like picking the very best lubricant.
I use Wilon shock buffs only in my full size CQB but in my Baer concept VII(commander size) I use The Reds for the commander from brownells they are thinner and are made for commander size pistols and function fine.I did however put 1000 or so fed hydro shocks through the commander and CQB without the buffs for a reliability check first.
I put the buffs in when I go to the range for practice and take them out when I'm done.The Reds from brownells last longer and are thinner(.090) I think but do not seem too affect the function,the wilsons are thicker but softer and do not last as long.
I guess it boils down to your own idea of what they are for......I use them only to ease the recoil during practice not in real life combat situations(I'm a street cop)so I make sure my weapons function without them first and foremost...then use them in practice and if I get malfunctions then I consider it good malfunction drilling!
I put the buffs in when I go to the range for practice and take them out when I'm done.The Reds from brownells last longer and are thinner(.090) I think but do not seem too affect the function,the wilsons are thicker but softer and do not last as long.
I guess it boils down to your own idea of what they are for......I use them only to ease the recoil during practice not in real life combat situations(I'm a street cop)so I make sure my weapons function without them first and foremost...then use them in practice and if I get malfunctions then I consider it good malfunction drilling!
I've been using CP buffs in My 5" guns for many many years with no trouble.
Yes and No
They must make them for a reason so I tried them with mixed results. I first tried a Wilson shok buff in my CCW, Kimber Compact CDP. Out of 100 rds, I experience 5 misfeeds on a weapon that had never failed before. I removed the shok buf and have not had another failure. I installed the shok buff in my Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special and didn't experience any FTF after 100 rds. The SB did absorb some of the recoil and I was able to get off more accurate follow-up shots. Feeling the difference in recoil, I understand how this could extend the life of the frame and slide.
I think I will continue to experiment with the SB in all my weapons to see which weapons benefit from it.
They must make them for a reason so I tried them with mixed results. I first tried a Wilson shok buff in my CCW, Kimber Compact CDP. Out of 100 rds, I experience 5 misfeeds on a weapon that had never failed before. I removed the shok buf and have not had another failure. I installed the shok buff in my Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special and didn't experience any FTF after 100 rds. The SB did absorb some of the recoil and I was able to get off more accurate follow-up shots. Feeling the difference in recoil, I understand how this could extend the life of the frame and slide.
I think I will continue to experiment with the SB in all my weapons to see which weapons benefit from it.
My 2 cents
Shock buffs not only come apart they can also cause the slide not to lock to the rear in some cases. I personally would not use them I see no need for them what so ever.
Shock buffs not only come apart they can also cause the slide not to lock to the rear in some cases. I personally would not use them I see no need for them what so ever.
Instead of asking the question, "If they are so great, why don't the big manufacturers install them in their guns?", instead why not ask why didn't J. M. Browning specify a shock buffer in his original design? Knee jerk answers to the questions above...."They prevent frame wear and damage."
That is pure b.s. If the gun is made and fitted up correctly, it will not rupture or break in the course of its lifetime due to the action cycling. Now if we are talking about a number of current production guns, the sloppy workmanship, and the general low quality of their frames and slides, then maybe a good case can be made for using the shok buffs. Note that you lose the ability to slingshot the slide when a shok buff is installed. That may not be a big deal if you don't load that way. More damage is done, by the way, by letting the slide slam shut than shooting your gun without that little piece of plastic on the guide rod. For those that find the concept intriguing, I recommend the Commonoli guide rod system that uses a buffer on both sides of the guide rod. Why not protect both pieces of metal while you're at it?
-Sparks
That is pure b.s. If the gun is made and fitted up correctly, it will not rupture or break in the course of its lifetime due to the action cycling. Now if we are talking about a number of current production guns, the sloppy workmanship, and the general low quality of their frames and slides, then maybe a good case can be made for using the shok buffs. Note that you lose the ability to slingshot the slide when a shok buff is installed. That may not be a big deal if you don't load that way. More damage is done, by the way, by letting the slide slam shut than shooting your gun without that little piece of plastic on the guide rod. For those that find the concept intriguing, I recommend the Commonoli guide rod system that uses a buffer on both sides of the guide rod. Why not protect both pieces of metal while you're at it?
-Sparks
From what little I know about steel framed 5" 1911s, shock buffers are a "cash cow" for their sellers. I have heard that the USMC 5" 1911s are running on frames with as many as 500,000 rounds on them. It is the slides and internals that are replaced at 50,000 to 100,000 round intervals. Besides, as I understand the dynamics of the 1911, the steel to steel elastic rebound of the slide is part of what makes the feed reliable especially if the gun is dirty.
As previously mentioned.....shok-buffs aren't just used for prevention of frame battering...they can change the way the gun recoil impulses....that's probably the reason a great many competition shooters use them.Sparks said:Note that you lose the ability to slingshot the slide when a shok buff is installed. That may not be a big deal if you don't load that way.-Sparks
Regarding the "loss of the ability to slingshot"....yeah on Kimbers...because they can't cut the slidelock notch correctly. Slingshoting is an inefficient method to drop the slide anyways.
I guess both my Baers and my friend's SA TGO I must have the slidelock notch in the wrong place too.......you can't slingshot them with Buffs in them either.vapors750 said:Regarding the "loss of the ability to slingshot"....yeah on Kimbers...because they can't cut the slidelock notch correctly. Slingshoting is an inefficient method to drop the slide anyways.
Well...yeah...if you put 5 buffers on there...nothing's going to slingshot....but from my past experience....all it takes is one on a Kimber.Kruzr said:I guess both my Baers and my friend's SA TGO I must have the slidelock notch in the wrong place too.......you can't slingshot them with Buffs in them either.
They won't let me slingshot my Kimber either, and yes I only use one. Sure they may have a huge margin for the shok buff makers, but still, at less than $1 each, it's cheap insurange. But yeah, probably not needed. I don't use them on my carry guns.
One reason the slide may not "sling shot" after adding a buffer is that the recoil spring may be coil binding. There is not a lot of extra compression length to give up before this happens on most recoil springs. This will also punch out the center of the buffer.
Buffs have their place....
In my opinion (that and some spare change might get you a cup of coffee) buffs have their place and use. Given a tuned weapon it isn’t required. It does change the perceived recoil and reduce muzzle flip to a certain extent. It is also insurance for a weak spring or loads hotter than the gun is tuned for. I use them to help determine the correct spring for a given load. I expect to see some small signs of impact after several hundred rounds. The ideal is for the spring to stop the slide just short of impacting the frame (imo). I’m not sure why one would want to ‘slingshot’ but my TGO doesn’t mind the buff as long as it isn’t over about 0.09 thick (CP or Wilson). It will not lock the slide with the thicker CPs. My old Colt has many rounds through it without a buff. I can tell by looking at the impact area on the frame. Not all springs last the same number of rounds nor do they all weaken at the same rate. I’ve had springs dramatically weaken in a very short period of time. Without the insurance (buff) I would have battered the frame at least once or twice before I noticed the difference in felt recoil.
In my opinion (that and some spare change might get you a cup of coffee) buffs have their place and use. Given a tuned weapon it isn’t required. It does change the perceived recoil and reduce muzzle flip to a certain extent. It is also insurance for a weak spring or loads hotter than the gun is tuned for. I use them to help determine the correct spring for a given load. I expect to see some small signs of impact after several hundred rounds. The ideal is for the spring to stop the slide just short of impacting the frame (imo). I’m not sure why one would want to ‘slingshot’ but my TGO doesn’t mind the buff as long as it isn’t over about 0.09 thick (CP or Wilson). It will not lock the slide with the thicker CPs. My old Colt has many rounds through it without a buff. I can tell by looking at the impact area on the frame. Not all springs last the same number of rounds nor do they all weaken at the same rate. I’ve had springs dramatically weaken in a very short period of time. Without the insurance (buff) I would have battered the frame at least once or twice before I noticed the difference in felt recoil.
Shock-buffs
Doesnt it say on the package when you buy one, that they should be replaced every 2,000 rounds or when they start to look battered??
Doesnt it say on the package when you buy one, that they should be replaced every 2,000 rounds or when they start to look battered??
Maj Tom:
The slide is not supposrd to stop on the spring. When it does that, the force is transferred to the spring bushing and from there to the flange of the barrel bushing which is not designed for that stress. The slide is supposed to stop when the back surface of the portion of the slide that contains the spring bushing contacts the frame.
The slide is not supposrd to stop on the spring. When it does that, the force is transferred to the spring bushing and from there to the flange of the barrel bushing which is not designed for that stress. The slide is supposed to stop when the back surface of the portion of the slide that contains the spring bushing contacts the frame.
I use buffs on all my guns, IPSC and carry, never had a problem, never had a failure, and I would hazard a guess to the tune of 150k rounds, maybe closer to 200k.
If you need the slingshot option, try the thin Hiett buffs. They are only .090 and work well. Here's the Brownell's link: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=6961&title=RED+BUFFS
As an aside, has anyone seen the new Dawson guide rod with the aluminum shok buff? Saw one last weekend, seems to be very well made.
Rich in VA
If you need the slingshot option, try the thin Hiett buffs. They are only .090 and work well. Here's the Brownell's link: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=6961&title=RED+BUFFS
As an aside, has anyone seen the new Dawson guide rod with the aluminum shok buff? Saw one last weekend, seems to be very well made.
Rich in VA
I've never found it necessary to use them as they seem like a fix for something that is not broken.
Later!
--Coop
Later!
--Coop
I use them
Sifu,
I use them in all of my 45's! Oh yes! They do fail after a while as I've found them to go bad after about 500 rounds instead of the 5000 that is always quoted.
rimfire,22
Sifu said:They're sold at almost every gun store. A gun smith tells me they cause more problems than they are worth. Is the shok buff's primary function to prevent slide fractures? What are the benefits in using them? Are they helpful in all 1911 style weapons?
Sifu,
I use them in all of my 45's! Oh yes! They do fail after a while as I've found them to go bad after about 500 rounds instead of the 5000 that is always quoted.
rimfire,22
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