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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I walked into a customers yard today with her, and here comes her dog snapping and growling as fast as he can only to be stopped by the chain it was on. I've been here before and new that the dog was on a chain, but today I was armed so I started thinking about likely scenarios. What if the chain broke. The pathway to the house is only a few feet from where the dog chain stops and the dog runs at me like he has no chain on, what if the chain broke and the dog was on me, or there was no chain? Although I've never been attacked by a dog, I feel certain that I could eventually beat the dog into submission, it's a medium size mut maybe 50lbs., but I would certainly sustain some painfull injuries in the process. Lethal force on a dog? What about if it was larger, say a big male lab?
 

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Dear stickshooter,

Here's a trick I learned from a friend who has worked with dogs all his life. All that's required is a ball cap and a firm grip. When approached by a growling or snapping dog take off your hat and hold it by the brim and hold the other end towards the dog as you back towards a gate, your car, etc... If the dog goes for you it will grab the hat and not let go. You'll have to hold on tight while you back your way to safety.

I'd also suggest you carry OC spray if your business requires you to enter yards where dogs are present. Stay safe, Gary

[This message has been edited by Gary W Trott (edited 10-12-2001).]
 

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IMHO, it depends on 1 thing.

Is my family with me?


If my family is with me:
Any dog who seems like they could seriously hurt eaither of my kids, get's it as fast as I can give it to him.


If alone:
The dog would have to be pretty big. I just won't chance the possiblity of my boy or anyone I love being hurt because I wanted to be PC.

IMHO

[This message has been edited by airborne420 (edited 10-12-2001).]
 

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Just recently I had a problem with my neighbors Sheppard. I was watching TV when I heard my dogs go balistic. I went on the deck to find this shepard come screaming out of the woods to pounce on my dog who was chained on his run. Unfortunately I was not armed so by the time I ran to the kitchen to grab my wifes 380 the Shepard had left that dog and attacked my other dog. Couldn't get a clear shot as the other neighbors children where playing on the other side of the dogs.

Well I called my local PD and got animal control officers voice mail. Left a message on it (the weekend so I had 2 days to wait)
The next day (sunday) I was under the sink fixing the drain when I heard a slam on my screen door and my dogs go off the wall.
Here was the same Sheppard slamming into the door. As I restrained my dogs I reached for my gun but the Sheppard ran off.

On Monday the ACO came out and ended up fining the owners 400 bucs for a "viscous dog" Never saw the dog again as the owners must have kept it locked up.

This was at the begining of summer and I just found out that they put the sheppard to sleep. Seems a little girl was playing in the woods and the dog mauled her. She is fine from what I can gather but will be left with mental scares along with physical ones as well.

She wouldn't have to worry about those things if I was quicker or armed the first time. Dog would of been "put down" alot sooner. Still feel bad and guilty about it.

So yes I would shot the dog if it was coming at me. I made the mistake once and I wont do it again.

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The path of the rightous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish
and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and justice
shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness for he is truely his brothers keeper and the finder of lost children and I will strike down upon thee with great vengence and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brother and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengence upon thee

[This message has been edited by Lupey (edited 10-13-2001).]
 

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Two weekends ago my wife and I hosted a party for some "dog friends." One brought a 105-pound, 4 year-old unneutered male. I have two unneutered males, 70 and 80 lbs., just under 2 years old. Of course the inveitbale happened, had to break up a couple fights, and the last one was a doozy -- the big male leapt at one of my dogs (who I was restraining on the ground)and I stuck my elbow up to prevent him from biting my dog's neck. Ofr course he chomped down on my elbow, big puncture wound near the elbow joint, lots of blood, emergency room visit, a week of antibiotics, etc. etc.

But here's the thing: it happened in a flash, I felt no pain, and I was carrying a big Benchmade AFCK. At no time did I think of drawing it (this dog is a very good dog, he was just riled up), but I don't think I could have anyway. All of my concentration was on getting this dog off my arm, and onto to the ground, where I threw my left forearm across his throat HARD. Then he calmed down and I picked him up and carried him away.

If you're going to defend yourself, that baseball hat trick sounds good. Or OC spray -- something you can access FAST. If you're thinking a gun is needed it had better come out damn quick!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I've used a version of the hat trick in the past. I usually always have something in my hand, mag light, tool bag, something, and I tend to keep it between us as a sacrificial weapon. To date, however, I have not run into a dog, that was not restrained, that I couldn't calm down and even befriend. On another occasion, I was walking around the back of a house with the homeowner and here comes a large male rottweiller (sp) full blast barking and growling. I didn't notice untill he literally got jerked over on his back ten feet in front of me that he was on a chain attached to a cable between two trees.
If your always in condition yellow, recognize the potential threat, out comes the handgun, then the dog gets jerked over on his back.....or perhaps the gun in that guys hand turns out to be something else...how exactly would you explain that to the homeowner beside you....or perhaps the bystanders on the street?
 

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Ammonia works wonders on repelling advancing dogs. Even the most vicious dogs will retreat to the other side of the yard when a miniscule amount is thrown at them.
 

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This is one area where OC spray does just what it is supposed to. I was on patrol, driving through a residential neighborhood in a rural area. This huge mutt came up to the door of my unit, growling, barking, and throwing spit all over the glass. It then started biting my tires. After this, it ran back and forth in front of my patrol unit. I could not leave the area without hitting him. Seeing that this was the case, I went slightly up the force continuum, rolled down my window, and gave the dog a quick squirt of OC, right on the nose. I have NEVER seen a dog take off that quickly!!! It broke land speed records.

From that day on, whenever I went back into that area in uniform, the dog retreated to its porch--and stayed there!

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"Be not afraid of any man, no matter what his size;

When trouble rises, call on me and I will equalize."
 

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Airborne, same question, and same answer. I love dogs, but the family comes first

Jack

Originally posted by airborne420:
IMHO, it depends on 1 thing.

Is my family with me?


If my family is with me:
Any dog who seems like they could seriously hurt eaither of my kids, get's it as fast as I can give it to him.


If alone:
The dog would have to be pretty big. I just won't chance the possiblity of my boy or anyone I love being hurt because I wanted to be PC.

IMHO

[This message has been edited by airborne420 (edited 10-12-2001).]
 

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In one of the hunting forums on talk.shooters.com there was a thread about feral dogs. This is a big problem in some town and cities too.

In the event of a breakdown of services for a substantial period, they would become a BIG problem.

[This message has been edited by LAK (edited 10-14-2001).]
 

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Guys, don't screw with dogs. I realize that some people have used this method or that method with success, but don't think that it is foolproof. A large dog that is not afraid of humans (maybe some feral dogs, specifically trained dogs, some with a natural inclination, etc.) WILL NOT simply bite a baseball cap and hold on...you WILL NOT be able to beat such a dog into submission with your bare hands...you WILL get hurt badly.

Hopefully any dog that you meet will be one that is just being aggressive and trying to defend his territory with bluster and threat and is not actually looking to do anything but drive you away. A show of fear is what he is trying to get and he will play up on it and chase you, possibly biting at you, etc. but he is not really trying to hurt you. It's just like human males defending their turf...few of us, unless we are in special circumstances, would actually try to kill each other. Same with the dog.

I'll share some doggy anecdotes...

There are many instances in Vietnam of American dogs being hit by fire from AK-47s and still taking down whomever they were after and walking away without much in the way of recuperation or visible impairment.

A dog's jaws are immensely powerful and a large dog can do damage to a trainer even through a bite suit. The suit is not total protection and you have to be careful even when wearing one and even if the dog is biting at you through the suit itself. I have seen a rather smallish Blue Heeler bite through the thigh of a bite suit and require stitches on the wearer of the suit.

I have personally had the experience of using pepper spray on a "pack" of German shepherds guarding a man's yard and finding that they didn't back down but only got madder. Fortunately for me, they were on the other side of a high chain link fence and we were just trying to get them away from the gate so that we could get in. It took most of two cans of spray RIGHT in the face, nose, mouth, eyes, etc. of the dogs from point blank through the fence to take the fight out of them. It most definitely did not get an immediate response from them other than anger.

I know a lot of guys who think that they can hold up their off arm to "take" the brunt of a dog's attack and then use their other arm to beat the dog into submission, whether bare-handed or with a club. In some cases it might just work...but I really wouldn't recommend it.

Sorry to ramble on...my answer to a question like that posed would be that I would probably not hesitate to shoot an aggressive dog. If it were on a chain or contained, I would not because of legalities of discharging my weapon and such but, if I and one or both of my little girls were out walking and a dog of size was plainly about to attack rather than just try and intimidate, there is no question about what I would do.
 

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I fail to see the distinction between threats encountered. Whats important is that you feel its a real threat to your life. I don't care if its a broke Crack addict, a rabid mad dog, child with a gun, or a hungry escaped Cassowary. A threat to your life is a threat to your life. Do whatever you have to to stay alive. Musashi ridiculed samurai who died with one sword in thier belt, don't die with your pistol still holstered!

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-Electric Armadillo-
"You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend." - Yasir Arrafat (On going to war over religion)
 

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I've fought dogs with my bare hands before, and trust me, the only way that you can 100% surely hope for success is not to get bit. I've known friends that have gotten bit by dogs, and regardless of what we did, the dog had to be put down just to get him off the person.

It's hard to say what to do because 2 identical situations will/could result into 2 different outcomes.

The best advice here is the same for every other situation. If you feelthat your life is in danger and you have a CCW and you feel you need to use it, then you probably do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
hdm25 is that the same kind of pepper spray that they use for bear repellant? Not to stray too much, but I could never see the logic of peppar spray on a bear when at least a bullet somewhere in the vitals would weaken him, maybe in time for him to quit chewing on you before you're dead. Reinforces my thoughts on pepper spray vs. any handgun.
 

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I agree with Electric_Armadillo.. I was attacked by a chow when i was a boy, i wasn`t hurt very bad, but it was violent.. In those moments of despair i got a crash course in the law of nature.. -Gilmore

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ME,WE!
 

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I heard about an off duty police oficer that was taken to court for shooting a dog that attacked him while jogging. He won the court battle, but ended up paying an arm and a leg in court and attorney fees. Better think hard before shooting, it's sad, but some people put animals lives before humans.
 

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Originally posted by Citizen_Gilmore:
I agree with Electric_Armadillo.. I was attacked by a chow when i was a boy, i wasn`t hurt very bad, but it was violent.. In those moments of despair i got a crash course in the law of nature.. -Gilmore

I was attacked by a Shepard when I was about 11 or so -- crash course is right! My mistake was running from the dog, he took a chunk out of my left thigh. Since then I've been confronted by dogs, usually while on a bicycle, and I go off on them if they give me any lip
By that I mean I get psycho on them, scream, charge at them, throw things at them, whatever. I had a pack of 3 dogs once think to themselves "Oh ****!" and take off running from me when I turned the tables on 'em. YMMV
 

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I think Huero had a descent idea.

Too I agree w/ what hdm25 said!

I once did the hat trick (very scary), plus I added a front snap kick to the dogs exposed throat. It was enough to cause him to break off the attack. But, I don't think he "really wanted me".

An officer friend of mine OCeed a beligerent dog right in the face, too. It coughed and growled at him, still fully capable of attacking.

I have pre-decided (based on what I have seen and heard from others) that if I have to shoot fido. I'm shooting and keep on shooting! I believe dogs are very hard dangerous targets.
 

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I think this may be a very important topic. "Puppy farms" are turning out some screwed-up dogs these days. Dogs kill a surprising number of people every year. Especially in groups, domestic dogs are far more dangerous than most people realize. When the pack circuits cut in, they are no longer house pets. So maybe we should all spend a little time thinking about this issue.

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If God didn't want us to own guns, why did He make the 1911?
 
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